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My Rant On JVs... I Hope My Experiences May Help Others :(

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by stevesdata, Sep 9, 2009.

  1. stevesdata

    stevesdata Regular Member

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    I was in the process of setting up a number of JVs these last 12 months and all have gone horribly horribly wrong.

    I feel like pulling out my f&8king hair!!!

    Partner 1 - got in debt and essentially ran away out of the blue, couldn't pay his rent so moved away. This was a friend.

    Partner 2 - had a number of excellent meetings all seemed very optimistic and then out of the blue didnt here anything from him. He got approx. $150,000 from some shares he sold. I think I saw him wizzing around at about 100 in a new Lexus. This was a friend.

    Partner 3 - we were in the process of setting up a web design company and he was desperate for work. As we got to the point when we were going to sign up for JV / partnership agreements, create business plans, bank accounts etc. Out of the blue he has been offered a sh1t load of work and doesn't think he can follow through with our plans?

    GRRRRRR this is very annoying. It is possible to work with others. A wise friend of mine said no, always set up on your own and employ ppl around you. Her father also had a hellish experience when trying to set up businesses with others.

    I am in the process of formally setting up an SEO company and Web Design company. I will follow through if it kills me. I am considering not working with anyone else on anything ever again. Do everything myself and outsource. This is a very very very big task though and I am currently working 60+ hour weeks on freelance jobs :(

    Would be interested to know other options experiences. Everything I am experiencing is pointing dont work or JV with anyone ever again apart from possibly a small project.

    Other experiences at my IT job our main 3rd party contractor is f^&ked through a bad JV with another company. All seems bad. Confusing thing here is I know some members have been working very well through JVs.

    The experience I have is everything fizzles out, enthusiasm dries up and you either:

    1) do most of the work yourself
    2) argue and get p1ssed at the other party for not delivering
    3) do nothing, work ceases

    The main issue I am having is with specifically creatives one was a photography / digital art guru, one web designer, one animator / web designer. I have also experienced problems with audio based creative ppl. I am finding that creative / talented ppl are extremely unreliable.

    I am hoping sharing my / other ppls experiences will help to avoid bad experiences like mine. I can only see myself moving forward by working with ppl by freelance / employment. No more partners for me in a hurry!

    EDIT: The one good bit of advice I have found is working with closer friends is very bad, ppl you dont know can be tough how can you trust. The most promising JV was referred through a friend we had a good working relationship (balance of friend / didnt know too well either), but timing was bad. He chose his own work over our project.

    RANT OVER

    :violin:
     
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    Last edited: Sep 9, 2009
  2. thesilent

    thesilent Supreme Member

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    I believe in JV's.

    When you are starting something new and you have no funds or skills JV's are the way to go. Offer something that will be valuable to the other guy and you are in business.


    Having said that JV's require lots of effort from both sides to ensure smooth running. You must put yourself in his place from time to time. Ensure that he doesnt have any grudges.

    Many people will jump at any JV oppurtunity but only a few will be there till the last. Expressing interest is easy, struggling is difficult.

    Many investors will invest in a startup only if its run by more than two guys. They argue that success ratio of the startup is better when the startup is led by a team.


    P.S: I had my fair share of bad experiences.
     
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  3. pewep

    pewep Power Member

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    Never been a JV fan. i BUY work. i don't mix friends and business either.
     
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  4. Sanitarium

    Sanitarium Regular Member

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    Many people will want to JV or say they want to out of the opportunity to have many people hanging around with different skills, thing is sometimes they drop or ignore people they don't need at certain times. Not everyone might be like you and value each JV equally.

    Sometimes the best thing is to not be too optimistic or pessimistic with these things but stay in the middle and learn how to read these people so in the future you know more.

    JV not my thing either but I think it's the way to go sometimes.
     
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  5. Pofecker

    Pofecker Senior Member Premium Member

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    I've got partners that make $1,000's every month with me and have to do nothing but collect money and send it to me.

    Several of them pay late or try to stiff me and I'm forced to terminate the partnership.

    I'm owed $5k+ right now and it's because I thought people would think/act logically. If you were making $1k's/month without doing anything, would you screw over the person that's making you that money? Sadly, the answer is yes and JV's suck.
     
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  6. stevesdata

    stevesdata Regular Member

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    To this day I feel I have been very unlucky.

    The latter 2 experiences have failed from circumstances out of my control what can I do if 2 guys who really needed money all of a sudden come into a lot of money / work?

    The kicker is I came up with a complex plan that looked like it could have returned $10k per month with 40-60 hours work (split equally). We had skills that complemented each others well and should have been golden.

    The good news I supposed is I am left with a project good to go and 100% profit to me now. It was complex and has taken a lot of brainstorming / planning.

    @ Pofecker that must suck.

    I think I need to start buying out other ppls work. Budget and see what happens. Prob I have is time. I am committed to 60-ish hours per week.

    NEED MORE TIME

    :eek:
     
  7. IntensE

    IntensE Power Member

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    I have to say aswell that JV's sucks, i've been in 4 jvs all of them seemed promissing at the begining and ended with nothing but dust.
    Same happens with outsourcers and friends.

    But i learned my lesson: NEVER trust anyone.
     
  8. stevesdata

    stevesdata Regular Member

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    I too am paranoid with working with ppl.

    I was going to copyright a load of stuff in both our names then he would have been essentially stuck with me to work on this project and couldnt easily screw me.

    Outsourcing is a bitch too. I dont trust many ppl online especially regarding IM.

    Very frustrating because the way my mind works I think big and end up needing others to complete the work :(

    :)
     
  9. thesilent

    thesilent Supreme Member

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    Ever heard of the term "necessary evil" ;)
     
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  10. twinkletoes

    twinkletoes Junior Member

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    I am miffed myself still with JV. I think it is possible, but both parties need to be on an even playing field.

    I was involved with one where the other party was much more experienced and found it hard to keep up. I found myself having to invest time in directions that were not getting me in a direction I wanted to go.

    I am back to the one person show now. It is a lot slower going, but there is something to be said for feeling in control of what is going on.

    I heading to gather a good group of outsourcing references now. But even there it is really hard to figure out who is really worth what.
     
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  11. stevesdata

    stevesdata Regular Member

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    I need to look into outsourcing.

    The thing that f&8ks me off if having to check the outsourced work. I am looking to outsource some pretty specific stuff and will have to spend a lot of time checking the outsourced work.

    Its def tricky areas I am paranoid about inc.

    *some f^&*u&Y taking my keyword research if I outsource content
    *copy and pasting articles
    *putting in CS or spyware / malware if I outsource web design
    *ppl f&8king up outsourced SEO
    *ppl wanting too much money for outsourced SEO

    I might have to start thinking out of the box on this one. Find a good web designer who doesnt even know any of the sh1t I have been talking about.

    :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2009
  12. silentthunder

    silentthunder Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    This thread is kinda freakin scary. I'm officially joining a JV today. It's a risk but it beats 9 to 5 and now that you guys are reminding me of the other potential side I know to save a lot and create lots of JVs and solo projects. While this one lasts it's going to be very valuable. I just got burn on an older JV over the freakin weekend too. Relationships sometimes go sour. :(
     
  13. stevesdata

    stevesdata Regular Member

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    Dont worry about it.

    Just dont trust them. The only thing I regret is the guy knows the basic outlines for some good business plans, he has a much better SEO knowledge thanks to me and has some great CMS research I did.

    However I might be getting 2 SEO clients through him because i didnt tell him enough to do himself ;)

    F**k I need to learn PHP ASAP ideally then I would be golden.

    :)
     
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  14. pewep

    pewep Power Member

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    I don't get it.

    90% of these mishaps could be avoided by simply paying a reliable person at RAC, elance, etc...

    Of course the other 10% is black hat business and this my friends is a free, wild country :). I mean shit, half of us make a living fucking a poor bastard out of money ;) with "free" trials.
     
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  15. stevesdata

    stevesdata Regular Member

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    The problem I think is no matter how reliable a person is you are still leaving yourself wide open if you dont check the ppls work.

    Half the stuff I hear about is ppl ranting about a super reliable person then one month they get screwed one way or another for not checking them out properly or outsourcing too much work to one person or whatever.

    You are right though gotta try and look in good places for good ppl. I am thinking about recruiting some ppl offline maybe.

    ;)
     
  16. silentthunder

    silentthunder Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    stevesdata: "Dont worry about it.
    Just dont trust them. The only thing I regret is the guy knows the basic outlines for some good business plans, he has a much better SEO knowledge thanks to me and has some great CMS research I did.

    However I might be getting 2 SEO clients through him because i didnt tell him enough to do himself ;)

    F**k I need to learn PHP ASAP ideally then I would be golden."

    :)
    Amazingly similar situation but that shouldn't be a surprise eh? This kid try to f*ck me good but it was mostly jealousy and laziness on his part. It wasn't terribly difficult or expensive to recover so I'm lucky. Hurt like hell though. steve why not put "PHP" in quotes and do a BHW search or just start and thread and ask for help? You're so there by being here! :cool:

    pewep: "I don't get it. 90% of these mishaps could be avoided by simply paying a reliable person at RAC, elance, etc..."

    BINGO! pewep when I realized that the business relationship was going to hell I went to the business books and was told the same thing in a way. It said to keep control by only trusting subservients with important tasks. Choose them wisely. I had already made the mistake by then. Never again. Thanks for the reminder. ;)
     
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  17. stevesdata

    stevesdata Regular Member

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    Thanks for the advice.

    The problem I have is time. I am currently freelancing full time for one company, working part time for another and taking on SEO clients too. I unfortunately dont have the time to learn sh1t :(

    This guy would have been able to save me a ton of time.

    Need to replan a lot of stuff today. I am feeling a bit better today. Yesterday was a p1sser.

    :)
     
  18. spcldeal

    spcldeal Registered Member

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    I am part of two JVs - best thing is that I am in control of the money. This may be hard to do, but see if you can at least make it partially in your favor. I say partially because in my case while I am in control of the money, they are in control of the "assets" - but no problems yet. I made my moneys worth...but yes, I was willing to take a risk of losing money too.
     
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  19. stevesdata

    stevesdata Regular Member

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    I think this is probably something else I would always try to insist on or a bank acc that has to be counter signed. Probably nothing else.

    ;)
     
  20. dizz

    dizz Elite Member

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    hey steve as a professional musician i know what u mean about creative people...not all are like this but is is almost always true...and what is bad is the better they are the more unreliable they are. I hope you don't give up on people though when you get the right group of people you will make gold.