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My local business has more citations than competitors - and I don't show up in the 7 pack

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by mqs1000, Jul 14, 2013.

  1. mqs1000

    mqs1000 Power Member

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    Local SEO is supposed to be mostly about citations as opposed to backlinks from what I've read and heard repeatedly over these last few months. Yet I just did some research on Google and Scrapebox. I type in a keyword and area and my local business doesn't show up in the 7 pack of Google. My site is 15 years old, has great content, has the citation in the footer, good website optimization, etc.

    I did some research on Scrapebox and my site has 110 citations currently (I plan on increasing this of course). Then I checked out my competitor who is constantly showing up in the local 7 pack and he has 100 citations. I checked the page ranks of the citations we both have and they are about even. What's the deal?
     
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  2. jakesnke

    jakesnke Registered Member

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    hey you can add me on skype: jacob.pinkham
    I manage 16 Google Local packages for attorneys, I can give you some tips.
     
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  3. SpiderBlast

    SpiderBlast BANNED BANNED

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    Citations don't mean as much as you think. Stop focusing on them so much.

    My competitors have like triple the amount of citations I do, but I still outrank all of them.
    And I use the same process for all my sites. I build 20 on my own manually, then outsource 48 citations on fiver.

    So I always wind up with only 68 citations done on each listing, and I'm always able to rank each listing above my competitors.

    Here is what helps the most.

    >>>>>>>REVIEWS.

    Mostly third part reviews on inside pages, yelp, yellow pages, yahoo, kudzu etc.

    I'm sure you see the ad for glowing reviews on this forum. Click on that ad, set up an account,
    and drip feed reviews for 2-3 months. Thats like 80% of my process, and it always gets my
    listings ranked above everyone else.

    You can also use fiver to get reviews on your google places. This is the only listing I don't use
    glowingreviews for and it would take too long to explain why.

    I've been doing this for a long time now and it works great as long as you never do more than 1
    review at a time, and space them out evenly. Occasionally, google will delete a few reviews, but
    it has never put a dent in the total amount that I wind up with.

    I also link my site to my google listing, and I notice like clockwork, everytime I start SEO on
    the site, I always noticed a few keywords pop up on my google listings. So get a link
    on your main site, and start SEO'n that shit.

    I forgot, I also do map citations too. Not a lot, typically about 30.

    Thats most of my process, and all my google places are ranking in the top 3 of the 7 box.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 15, 2013
  4. MTUser2010

    MTUser2010 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Sure, I can just hit the thanks button and I did. But I want to express my appreciation for this type of post. I have BHW open most of the day and hit refresh often to look for posts that I can contribute to, and learn from. Maybe it is me, but sometimes it looks like a lot of dross to sift through to find something really valuable like this. I own a couple of businesses that do OK in Google places but could certainly do better so I really appreciate helpful, and detailed posts like this. Thanks again.
     
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  5. Moosey

    Moosey Senior Member

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    Absolute gold. I bet someone already rewrote this post and is selling it on Warrior Forum.
     
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  6. shakeitout

    shakeitout Regular Member

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    Thank you for this post because it is absolute GOLD!
    I have begun doing this process in the past few months, but I have hit a roadblock. I have 2 clients who have had horrible SEOs that I've been cleaning up after. They have barely any account informations and the citations are wrong name, phone number, address etc....

    What do you suggest I do to get those changed because I have no access to the accounts. I've been told I need to pay $900 bucks to yext for them to "fix" the problems. What would you suggest doing? Do I even need to change them or will everything else still have this client where he needs to be?
     
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  7. Nigel Farage

    Nigel Farage BANNED BANNED

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    Do a careful analysis of the top 7 competitors, and do what they do. Join the BBB and get the backlink. Make certain your NAP consistency is perfect. Don't take SEO advice from big-talking idiots. Not all citations are equal. Some are worthless. Social Media is a must-have. All rank competition is relative. Some niches and some geographies are harder than others. Optimize for Zip Codes and Neighborhoods. Don't take SEO advice from big-talking idiots. On page SEO is important, to include optimized images and page load times, Content Delivery Network, Privacy Policy, filepath name optimization, alt text optimization, good keyword analysis of the niche AND of the competitors, as was mentioned reviews are important, but they are one of many important factors in high-competition niches and geographies. Optimize for mobile devices is a REALLY good idea, 100 shitty citations aren't worth 3 of the top-tier citations, Yelp reviews sell for $25 to $40 for a reason, DON'T let some 3rd world barefoot villager write the copy of your reviews. Write them yourself, or have real customers write them otherwise that Fiver gig from Indonesia is going to extol the virtues of your sucky-fucky, love-you-long-time, see you later Joe massage parlor when instead you sell christian books & magazines. Loved that "Happy Ending" after I finished reading the Book of John. Here's an extra 50 cents, Cindy Wong.

    The world can SERIOUSLY spiral wildly out-of-control when you allow other people to write reviews of your business. Your writing is probably really horrible, too. Most business owners lack the ability to see their business from the customer's perspective, or even a perspective a customer can identify with. My opinion, real customers or at least people familiar with the City are best, professionals 2nd, you 3rd and 4th is everyone else, and they aren't worth the risk. "Jose is the BEST PLUMBER EVER. I have him lay pipe in me every chance I get and HE DOES IT SO GOOD. And OH! the way he TURNS MY WRENCH, Ooo! it makes my knees QUIVAH!!!"

    *quote from actual Fiver Review
     
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  8. Smeems

    Smeems Regular Member

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    Bit out the loop with local - so hopefully can answer my question:

    If you're targeting multiple regions - so multiple local citations - are you all making new websites to do it, or has anyone had success with multiple landing pages on the same website optimised for each region you're targeting? I remember a while back Google+ Local was awful for businesses with multiple locations - just wondering if that has changed and it's possible to target multiple regions for businesses with more than one location.

    Cheers!
     
  9. livingcovers

    livingcovers Registered Member

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    Helpful info we got going here. Anyone else mind sharing some more tips on citations...thank you!
     
  10. shakeitout

    shakeitout Regular Member

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    I couldn't agree more Farage, but my problem lies in cleaning up after someone. I have no account information for about 10 of the citations and have no way to change them to fix the mess made by the previous seo. I've tried contacting web masters and the only other option I have is to use yext which I would rather not pay $900 bucks for. What's best way to fix these citations without using a service like yext?

    Ive just never run into the problem of not being able to access accounts and the NAP's are wrong across those 10/60 something citations. Organically I'm ranking #1, but on maps I'm not showing up because of the citations having wrong addresses etc...
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2013
  11. Nigel Farage

    Nigel Farage BANNED BANNED

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    You MUST take control over all citations that have erroneous information. NAP pollution and NAP dilution is a big huge, jumping up & down and wailing loudly type of problem. It's also an opportunity to do negative SEO on the competitors.
     
  12. shakeitout

    shakeitout Regular Member

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    I understand that and that is why I am asking for HELP. I am cleaning up after a low rent SEO came in and spammed a bunch of cheap citations and put wrong NAP in them... I have none of the accounts and I CANNOT ACCESS the accounts. What is my best mode of repairing these citations besides YEXT???
     
  13. Nigel Farage

    Nigel Farage BANNED BANNED

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    You have to TRY. REALLY REALLY TRY. You have to close your eyes, click your heels together like Dorothy and then WANT WITH ALL YOUR MIGHT to take control over the citations. You have to say "I want control over these citations. I want control over these citations."

    If that doesn't work, then you have to go online setup your own accounts and figure out how to claim each business one at a time.
     
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  14. shakeitout

    shakeitout Regular Member

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    I'm trying my best to brute force it... But none of these e-mails are even signed up with half of the citations.
    What have you done in the past to fix listings?
     
  15. affarmy

    affarmy Regular Member

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    Yelp IMO is the most powerful local se0 option aside from G... look at the serps outside of the 7 pack and see who has the most trust with G and then get listings there. Yext is not an option and is junk anyways..
     
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  16. shakeitout

    shakeitout Regular Member

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    is anyone actually reading anything I am saying???? I have done this before and have been working in local seo for years.... I have run into a client which has no access to any of his local citation accounts... I have no way of changing them because my experience with webmasters is that they don't actually read e-mails.....

    So what options do I have to gain access to the accounts and or change the incorrect information. Yext is only an option so that I can CHANGE the citations I have no access to.
     
  17. SpiderBlast

    SpiderBlast BANNED BANNED

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    "Big talking idiots". LOL. And I guess you're the exclusion?

    More than half of the things you said were "important", are an absolute crock of shit.

    All this talk about "not all citations are created equal" ... no offense, but no shit. There's no point even
    saying it cause all you're succeeding at doing is overwhelming newbies who are a lot smarter than you
    think.

    And seriously, is that what you say in your sales pitch to business owners?

    "I have the MAGICAL cure for your google listing sir, did you know that not all citations are created equal?!
    Yes, that means, that yellow pages, yelp, yahoo aren't the same as magic yellow or brownbook or purplebook".

    Also, all this crap -

    Content Delivery Network,
    Privacy Policy,
    filepath name optimization,
    alt text optimization,
    good keyword analysis of the niche AND of the competitors


    TOTALLY OVERATED.

    These are nothing but "addons" that marketers need to sell so they can charge business owners $XXXX / month
    to rank their google listing. So why is it, that almost every business owner I've ever spoke to, has had problems
    ranking their google listing and getting leads? Its because of people like you selling a plethora of shit that they
    don't need.

    And "good keyword analysis"... comeon. If a business owner is in kitchen remodeling, it doesn't take a rocket
    scientist to figure out what keywords to target. Again, I'm not minimizing the importance of good keyword
    analysis, but this is LOCAL. In local, traffic tends to be so low that you NEED to target EVERY possible keyword
    you can.

    My point is this. I don't sell google places/plus ranking to business owners.

    I don't even sell them complete marketing funnels. Most my income comes from the volume of leads I'm
    able to generate. There is no monthly fee for ranking. I either produce results or I don't make money.

    Lots of marketers don't have the balls to sell like this, because they'd rather convince business owners that all
    this useless shit is important, so they can waste xxxxx however many months making excuses about why
    the business isn't getting leads.

    Business owner calls you and says, "I'm sorry, but I think this is a waste of time and money, I'm not getting any
    leads".

    You repy, "I'm sorry sir, but we still haven't set up a content delivery network, you have no privacy policy, no
    file name optimization, and we are working on all these things really hard sir".

    Its hilarious.

    If you want to rank your google listing. Reviews aren't just "another part of the process". They are fundamentally,
    the most IMPORTANT thing you can do. And yes, you need to take your time writing them. Or you can get smart
    and find other places with natural reviews, and rewrite those reviews for your own niche.

    But do NOT make this process harder than it needs to be. 3 years ago I came online (to WF at the time) to find help
    ranking my google listing. I got all this useless advice like mentioned above. I was overwhelmed, flustered, tried
    applying many of the tips, and did NOT NOTICE SHIT HAPPEN. So what did marketers say? They started
    recommending OTHER useless shit, one by one.

    I'm not saying a privacy policy isn't useful, or a content delivery network. What I'm saying is, I will outrank any google
    listing, without having any of that shit. No alt text, I'll delete it. No file path optimization.

    All I need is -

    1) Tons of 3rd party reviews
    2) 68 citations
    3) 30 map citations
    4) Website SEO
    5) Geotargeted content on a large, quality site
    6) Good people to outsource to

    That's all I ever need. All the other stuff I do, like optimized photos, videos, etc... this is stuff marketers can figure out
    on their own. But the one thing that has increased ROI the most, are those reviews. I have so many people call up now
    with their minds 90% made up that they're using the company I work for. I wonder if those reviews have anything to
    do with that. It sure as hell isn't my alt text or privacy policy that got their attention.

    Reviews help you rank, they help conversions, they get peoples attention, they make people click. So before you go
    crazy doing all this other nonsense, get a lot of reviews first. Thank me later.


    -SB
     
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  18. shakeitout

    shakeitout Regular Member

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    What service do you use for your review drip feeding? And I have seen the map citation's on fiverr where do you get those also?
     
  19. Nigel Farage

    Nigel Farage BANNED BANNED

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    And then one day, one of your client's competitors notices that the only reason why your client is ranking is because you have a whole bunch of fake reviews, and they trigger a manual review, and then "BOOP!" the unpaid volunteer manual reviewer correctly perceives the site as being thin, thin, thin and a prime example of "Wham Bam, Thank-you SPAM" and drop-kicks your client's ass from Letter "A" to page 4.

    Which is where one of my client's competitors has been sitting for the last 6 months, despite having a dramatically larger online presence. Google Local will demote you just like any other spammy site, they'll delete your fake reviews, Yelp will delete your fake reviews, and after this guy has taken your money and left you on the side of the road with your butthole bleeding and a bad case of chlamydia, you'll be exactly where you were before you met this turbocharged douchebag. Only your butthole will be bleeding and you'll have a bad case of anal chlamydia.

    And I'm not selling anything here. I'm offering the benefit of my knowledge and experience for free. People can take it or leave it. Reasonable people can agree to disagree, but a turbo-charged douchebag is still a turbo-charged douchebag, and the accident of being occasionally correct about something does not change that fundamental fact.
     
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  20. SpiderBlast

    SpiderBlast BANNED BANNED

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    I take your posts about as seriously as I take your avatar.

    Go search the billions of threads on google forums about businesses getting LEGITIMATE reviews deleted and losing
    rankings. I've seen it happen hundreds of times.

    Whats really ironic, out of all the sites I've drip fed reviews, I'm yet to have >>> one lose rank yet.

    If you really want to get down and dirty, sites with legitimate reviews stand more of a chance of losing rank,
    because business owners think its "no big deal" to get 5 reviews in 1 day... hey, they're real right?

    Too bad google doesn't give a fuck.

    Its much harder to get real reviews posted at stable intervals, harder to manipulate them to get past googles
    filters. So keep being the nice guy. Because once again, google doesn't give a fuck.

    -SB
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2013