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My clients are pissed! [OR] Am I getting paid too much?

Discussion in 'Offline Marketing' started by SEOHoe, Jun 2, 2011.

  1. SEOHoe

    SEOHoe Newbie

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    Hey guys, please bear with me for a sec...

    I was hired by an online clothing company based in the UK (I'm in the US) to do email marketing and social media marketing for them. They are paying me $400(USD) at the start of every 2 week period -- for a total of 3 months.

    My first two weeks were very productive because I redesigned their blog and set up the Twitter/FB pages, etc. And from the start one of the partners and I have been getting along very well and I have been over-delivering in terms of providing them with valuable market info that they wouldn't have otherwise, etc.

    Let me backtrack for a sec...

    In another thread here I wrote about getting hired by my first client who was paying me $900 per month to do social media and blogging for them. This client was trying to sell CULTURAL clothing to people all over the world. Nobody bought their products before I signed on and although I increased their traffic by 513%, nobody bought their products. It's not my fault... They are selling the wrong products to the wrong people. Needless to say, they put the project "on hold" after the first month. So that was the end of that gig.

    Now with this new client, I fear that the same thing is about to happen because despite my efforts, they haven't made any sales --- Trust me when I say, it's not me, it's their products. When I sent them the 2nd Paypal invoice on Friday, they didn't pay it. Also, the partner that I am always in contact with wouldn't reply to any of my emails regarding their newsletter stats and whatnot for days.

    Finally, I resent the invoice on Monday and I was shocked when the partner that I've NEVER EVER had contact with emailed me saying that the invoice had now been paid and asking me what work has been done and what remains to be done. Clearly, he does not see the value in what I'm doing. And at this point, I don't really see the value in what I'm doing either.

    I've read that a person should be paid $100 per email newsletter that they create... So that justifies $400. I will be doing 1 email newsletter a week, Twitter/FB updates 3 days a week, and 1 new blog post per week. How do I justify charging them $800/month for this? Why do I feel like I'm cheating them? What can I do to give them more value?

    P.S. I can't make sales for them because they are trying to sell cultural clothing to people who don't care about that style of clothing. I know this market because I have the number 1 fashion blog related to this market (seriously)... so I know that nobody is going to buy their clothes. What should I do? I need this gig and I want to do a great job for them, but I can't guarantee sales so wtf?
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2011
  2. mattbowden

    mattbowden Regular Member

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    Email newsletter creation alone in the uk can be anything up to £250. I would give a detailed report of what you have done also the links created and any growth in traffic.
    Some people want something for nothing and do not like spending money on advertising.
    Maybe add a link to your own blog other than that they entered into a contract with you.
    You have kept your side of the agreement there is no guarntee that anything in advertising is going to work. Plus it maybe to early to see any of the benefits of what you have been doing
     
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  3. Kickflip

    Kickflip BANNED BANNED

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    Search for similar services to your own which charge much more money for less work. This will help you sleep at night, and you can send them links to those other sites so they can see you really aren't gouging them. I guarantee there is hundreds of businesses charging $1999/Month for the same service you are doing.
     
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  4. SEOHoe

    SEOHoe Newbie

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    See and I'm getting paid £250 every two weeks for 2 email newsletters and more! My original quote to them was WAY more than £500/month but that's the price that they wanted to settle with, so since it's my second client, I took the gig.

    Anyway, I gave them a report and they didn't even reply to it. It's a bit frustrating to be honest. And by the way, I'm not responsible for linkbuilding. I even posted them on my own fashion blog. But their products don't sell. :hmpf:
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2011
  5. Water damage

    Water damage Junior Member

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    If they bought a quarter page colored ad in the local BT phone book for $500 per month (12 month contract) and didn't make any sales would the BT salesperson feel guilty? Would they be within their rights to ask for a refund or be released from their contract? It's advertising and some things work while others don't - they aren't entilted to anything back from you and they shouldn't expect you to break any contract they have with you either - you've upheld your part of the deal. Your job is to bring people to them - their job is to make the sale.
     
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  6. mohitjmehta

    mohitjmehta BANNED BANNED

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    just give them more FB fans twitter followers

    BTW how did u find them??
     
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  7. SEOHoe

    SEOHoe Newbie

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    I guess you're right, but according to my last experience, traffic to their website is not enough. If they're not making money, they don't want to spend money. I can see their point, however like you said, people advertise all day long and don't see any sales from it. Charge it to the game.

    I was thinking about using a Fiverr service to do just that. I guess I should do it. And they actually found me (just like my first client did). They wanted to advertise on my website and I convinced them to hire me. :cool: (lol)
     
  8. MillionDollarAdMan

    MillionDollarAdMan Registered Member

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    if you feel like you're "cheating" them then you probably know that there is more that you could be doing to help them..

    You should consult to them as to why you think their marketing isn't working, no use in continually charging them if you know it's not working. Tell them why you think it's not working and what they should be doing to make it work.. if you want to keep the job then you gotta start thinking less like an employee and more like the business owner..
     
  9. blackhataffiliate

    blackhataffiliate Senior Member

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    Have you suggested that "we take a look" at their sales copy, etc to see if "we can find a way" to improve their sales. You know it is not your fault and so do they, but if you step up and say "lets take a look and see if we can find the problem" and volunteer some help then you look like the hero and can probably win some business as well as a referral.
     
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  10. efwebs

    efwebs Regular Member

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    Use traffic or friends as a metric of your "success", not sales....that is their job to have a product that converts.
     
  11. aStroke

    aStroke Regular Member

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    Exactly what everybody else has been saying. For my clients, I NEVER promise sales. How can you promise something you are not in control over? The only thing you can do is to bring in targeted traffic.

    Explain to them that what you are doing is worth it. With a targeted list, you can see amazing results. They just don't have the right product and are not targeting the right demographics.

    Another thing. I ALWAYS examine my clients' website, products, and etc beforehand. Its just like choosing what you want to promote before you promote it. Reiterating what I said before, you can't sell a product to the wrong demographic. If this is a startup company and they are hiring you because they want to magically see sales fly in, then you might want to think hard about taking them in. It'sALWAYS harder for a startup to pay you because they most likely have no proven way to land sales yet. The best clients are they ones who have a process going and they just want to scale up.

    Here's an analogy that IMs can relate to.

    Which is easier?
    Making a site making $1 a day from scratch.
    Pushing site earnings from $1 a day to $2 a day.

    Most will choose $1-$2.
    Of course there are exceptions to what I am saying but for the most part, this is what I have experienced. Stick to what has worked in the past. If there is no past success, you better explain to them that SEO/SMO/Email marketing isn't a magical "get rich" button.
     
  12. Virus1

    Virus1 Supreme Member

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    Sales do not always happen...

    sometimes the product just sucks....

    but you should not be paid based on sales...
    you do not work commission for them....
    you did your job.. and they need to understand that your job
    was not based on increase sales.....

    talk to them about it....
    let them out of the contract... as long as they pay you what you have worked for...

    it seems unfair to you... but in business you have to bend sometimes...

    good luck...
     
  13. altschule

    altschule Regular Member

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    I guarantee I could stand outside the shoe store in the mall and get the candy store next door much much more visitors than they usually do... You guarantee this as well, and you have stats to show that you did YOUR PART.

    If you could follow each customer into that candy store and sell them one of everything, or even one of anything, it'd be a perfect world, eh?

    That'd be like telling a truck driver to deliver his truck full of fruits across the nation, then stand there and sell it to the consumer for the client, so that they're satisfied with the delivery.

    That's not how the world works, you're selling yourself as a marketer, not a salesman.

    Explain this to them, and if you have any sales experience, offer it to them - for more coin, of course. If they don't understand, their business is headed somewhere south anyhow, so start migrating some of those eggs to a new basket.
    :llama:
     
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  14. BigLarry

    BigLarry Regular Member

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    Firstly I know it's your second client and so you where happy to take the gig but you're massively underselling your skills with them.

    The only justification you really need to give them is a google analytics graph showing the increase in traffic and/or rankings for the keywords you've targetted. The rest is up to them.
     
  15. wholesalereplica

    wholesalereplica BANNED BANNED

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    as all have said before, you have no reason to feel guilty, you did your job you got more vistors to their store, their job is to ensure what they are selling is compelling enough for people to buy, obviously it is not- even with targetted traffic

    Therefore show them what you have done for them and politely ask if they would like to hounour the contract agreed----in business many contracts get renegotiated its part of life---even if you agree a lower fee for a few months you may still be ahead of the game

    good luck
     
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  16. tekman

    tekman Newbie

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    Most businesses fail and its not your job to find what products sell the best and match the customers to the products. I would just try and build up more clients. And think optimisticly that you are making money no matter what and not failing like they are.

    I have had companies come to me wanting to post for money ect. I'm usually too busy though.
     
  17. fulcanelli

    fulcanelli Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    It's totally not your responsibility to make sure their products sell. You are being paid to write a newsletter? Well, it's their job to run their company to sell good products, not you.

    Also, never ever lower your prices unless you present it as a coupon or something like that. Lowering your price will cause a lack of respect and you will be walked all over.

    In fact, Raise your prices especially if you want to end the relationship. They either drop out, which is a win, or they keep going and will respect your time more.

    [Forgive me as I didn't read the entire thread or all the details. I'm in a rush haha]
     
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  18. MintM

    MintM Newbie

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    Agree with everyone else here, but this is also an example of why it's essential to choose your clients well.
    Though it's not obviously part of your job here, when I take on an offline client, I look to see that I can make a big difference to their bottom line. Then I look good. So part of that assessment is does their service or product sell, and what's the process? I can offer consultancy to help them with that too. Like you say, all the traffic in the world won't do anything unless they can convert it.
     
  19. fibonacci81

    fibonacci81 Registered Member

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    It's not worth having a difficult client. You obviously have a solid offering. Be professional and as long as you have met your obligations of your contract, there should be nothing holding you back.
     
  20. KraftyKyle

    KraftyKyle Jr. Executive VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Wonderful post man. Very well said.