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Music Marketing & development

Discussion in 'Making Money' started by GreenGoblin, Jan 16, 2012.

  1. GreenGoblin

    GreenGoblin BANNED BANNED

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    Music Marketing & development

    WOW! Where do I start? I'm a 80's baby raised on 90's music more Hip Hop then anything else, 2 Pac, Nas, Jay -Z , WU Tang and so on I'v seen hip hop change so much the business deals where labels have Joint Ventures with mini labels like Rocafella, Def Jam etc to 360 deals where Majors bend the artist over and rape them for everything they have.

    The purpose of this post is for those music lovers who intend to venture into the music business at some point in time or another or just a artist here that needs some in sight on just what the HELL! is going I think we should share ideas regarding Music Marketing & development right now is a golden opportunity and ill tell you why.

    THE INTERNET! Fu%$#@ up the music business not napster, not downloading , the internet as a whole CRUSHED! Music as we know it and ill tell you why.
    See back in the early 80's and early 90's the internet didn't really have impact on music because artist had no avenues to promote themselves such as youtube, streaming, podcast etc, and consumer still had to get there lazy asses up and go in the store and buy a CD.

    So consumers still had to rely on media (Radio, Television) to tell them what's hot and what was not this is why Yo MTV raps was so important and at the time Rap City people still had to watch the Television to stay on top of what was going on in music and there favorite artist. Back then there were only so many artist out there we knew we can count them on 1 hands (figure of speech LL, cool J, Jay-z, 2pac, Biggie, Nas, Dr Dre. Outkast, The point I'm getting to is this there were only a few rappers that you heard and saw as a consumer.

    Now think about today Rap Music everybody & there mother raps uncles, aunts, sisters, cousins all rap and in my opinion it's 98% garbage 2% talent so where exactly am I getting too ...well.

    The net single handedly devalued Rap Music WHY? Because you have more people supplying then buying I mean just look at the record sales major artist like 50 cent can't break 500k in a week

    http://www.examiner.com/rap-music-in-new-york/50-cent-talks-about-doing-poorly-with-new-album-sales

    Because the content that radio wants to promote isn't exclusive anymore we went from.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfXwmDGJAB8

    TO!​
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NXBgSCSrIk&feature=fvwrel

    I'm mean just listen to the content transition from generation to generation

    Something else that's interesting that group only sold 175,000 copies
    http://blogcritics.org/music/article/cd-review-d4l-down-for-life/

    (The reason the first week sales are important because typically after the reviews are in the sales normally decline)

    HOW CAN YOU TAKE AVANTAGE OF THIS & MAKE SOME GOOD CASH POTENTIAL MILLIONS

    Good question I hope everyone share ideas even your opinion on the current state of music in general, marketing ideas, hopefully we can eventually get a Music Marketing forum if anyone has question regarding music post them on the thread I spend time doing research because my GF will be a Entertainment attorney come this may so yea were moving to good old NYC, Ill be adding more topics and so on to this thread for those of your interested in the music business.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 16, 2012
  2. bushbabie21

    bushbabie21 Executive VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Dude, honestly i went to school for audio engineering and ran a multi million dollar recording and video facility in Yonkers NY a few years back and i know that when i got out (roughly 3 years back) the big inside joke was that the music industry had turned into a suckers game, in that most if not all of the money made was by selling stuff to suckers with pipe dreams. I met many many movers and shakers that had the attitude of a dollar in hand is better than a thousand promised. Also it occured to me that int he music field, there is very very little middle ground. In other words, especially in urban genres, there doesn't seem to be many artists that can reasonably survive from music sales and royalties.

    Its even worse on the studio side in that all the technology has created an influx in "home-grown" do-it-yourself music. Most of these new hobbyists are not educated in audio concepts, hence the fidelity of your average mp3 is much lower than even cd quality used to be. Funny part is its considered acceptable now because low-grade mp3's are the norm.

    Anyhow as you can probably tell i am very disillusioned with the whole situation but some food for thought. I think the music industry might see a corporate sponsorship model in the future where advertisers pay for the production and costs associated with music. So in my mind you might see "Pepsi presents: 50 cent" that type of deal becuase music is free for all intents and practical purposes even now.
     
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  3. gb5000

    gb5000 Regular Member

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    YEP!!!

    Everything you say is TRUTH!!

    Great post Green!
     
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  4. zmoney

    zmoney Senior Member

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    Yeah, no longer do you need a 24 track API or NEVE, just go download Some VST from waves :)

    Preamps? nah, just run that through an M-box and then compress everything to hell and back with your handy dandy "analog" 1176.

    Digital recording destroyed a lot of it too, like was said. You literally can grab a laptop, a mic pre, drum triggers with drumagog and put out something quite good.

    Hell, the last projects I mixed, I did for $80.00 per track, which was pathetic, but I had to compete.
     
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  5. gmjames

    gmjames Junior Member

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    That's already been happening to an extent though. I have seen ads on t.v. for sprite that feature one of the more popular rappers currently out. Corporate sponsorship has been apart of the industry for a while but I agree with you that it will become a lot more obvious in the years to come.

    When it comes to album sales, that's not where a lot of revenue is currently made. Some artists can make more money off of touring or single sales than they can by releasing an album. But there are hip-hop artists that can sell (Lil Wayne did over 900k his first week, Drake did over 400k, Jay-Z and Kanye did over 500k). And album sales in Pop have generally remained strong.
     
  6. GreenGoblin

    GreenGoblin BANNED BANNED

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    That all depends but great point, lets look at Jay-z for example, jayz audience is from the 90's there still mentally condition to walk in a store and buy a CD
    this is why artist like jay can still go platinum releasing a record because the bulk of his sales come from people who been buying his albums since 1996.

    Now getting back to touring, and making money. The artist who have good deals can make money touring however artist who have 360 deals are not so luck because a 360 deals pretty much says we (The label) share in all monies meaning album sales, ring tones, yup even touring so artist don't even keep 100% of touring anymore.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2012
  7. royal2b

    royal2b Regular Member

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    Occupation:
    Intl' playboys .. Last of a dying breed
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    Earth...Mars got boring
    I've got a team of producers and a few Ill rappers that I work with and I'm building a few sites as we speak to showcase some of our work.. One of the producers, a very close friend of mine, actually got a couple of his instrumentals hosted on a couple mixtapes by The Heatmakerz (dipset producers) & dj Green Lantern just the other day .. So we're starting to pick up a bit of exposure, but we've been working on our craft for about 8 years now..

    I've also been looking into starting up a label and searching for talent in a foreign country that i travel to often, and have a few connects in(tv/radio/clubs).. I already have a few female singers out there with some serious talent working with some of my guys. A few who Sing in English, French, Spanish & Arabic ! And they sure got the look as well ;p .. Like you said Everybody and their aunties are wannabe rappers or entertainers nowadays out here in the states, and the competition to break into the Top Tier Music Industry is still pretty stiff.. So i figured it would be easier to monopolize in a Area where There Isn't a few select Conglomerates already in power..

    I myself produce and play the piano (influenced by J dilla,9th wonder,Just Blaze,Nujabes, to name a few).. I also write but dont really record much, though many people say I should since i have a unique and solid singing and rapping voice, plus my lyrical content is up too par as well.. A lot of my influence came from 90's rap as you mentioned (Nas, Pac, Jay, Biggie, Pun, Big L, Gang Starr, Killa Cam, ect) and a few new school artists also (Lupe,T.i, Immortal Tech, Chris Brown, Ryan Leslie, Pharrell, Wale, ect) but being famous in America is not really a goal of mine ... Its no secret that the Elite in this Industry will eat you alive or have you clipped if your not careful or dont comply (Happy bday & R.i.p to Aaliyah btw, and the rest that fell victim..)
     
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  8. gb5000

    gb5000 Regular Member

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    YEP!!!!

    I was tault by an old school producer, You actually had to know what COMPRESSION was and how to use it properly in the mix, what to use it on, and etc. before he let you even TOUCH the boards!

    Most new producers don't even know how to eq properly. Let alone what sidechains are and how to use them.

    Damn, $80 for a mix? PER TRACK? Cats use to charge ATLEAST 150 an hour for that (thats IF you were an unknown engineer, established eng. use to get 500 and up an hour) and since I know it takes you more then an hour to mix one track, thats ALOT of work for very little pay.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 17, 2012
  9. bushbabie21

    bushbabie21 Executive VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    You are referring to endorsement deals. I am talking a complete funding package for the pre-production all the way through to the tour support. As far as most acts making more touring that definitly is true and part of the reason for so many 360 deals when i was getting out. ALso just to clariffy, i am aware of the fact that the huge artists are still making sales, but thats in essence my problem with the whole industry. People seem to cling to the outliers in this industry and ignore the wasteland of the "average" or even moderatly successful. Whereas a moderatly successful startup can easily be making $1 million dollars a year and be unknown, not an industry leader or affiliated with a huge conglomerate, that concept is virtually unheard of in the music biz. I mean honestly how many artists do you personally know that are not famous, but make a decent living with music? I know 2 and they sell services to musicians.


     
  10. gb5000

    gb5000 Regular Member

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    The thing is, is that the music game is not going away. The way into the game has just changed.

    There are still people getting signed. The signing of new deals does not depend on just talent though. That, unfortunately, has changed as well.

    Artists now-a-days have to be alot more business suave then they used to be.

    BTW, those guys selling services to musicians made a VERY SMART decision. They should be in business for a long time to come, because there are ALOT of people that want to live that dream.........
     
  11. bushbabie21

    bushbabie21 Executive VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    I guess my rebuttal is to look at the number of "signed" artists that never make any money. Dont let my lack of faith dissuade you though...I'm sure a change will come at some point.

     
  12. gmjames

    gmjames Junior Member

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    Oh okay I think I misread. If that does happen I think that will be the death of hip-hop as a culture. I could see it happening in Pop or "Hip-Pop" though, for sure. And there definitely are rappers and hip-hop artists who actually make a living doing music, although they are not stars or "household names"
     
  13. gb5000

    gb5000 Regular Member

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    Thats one thing that is great about the internet though. Yeah, its a slow grind to getting to the point were you making some coin, but if you can succeed, you can find out alot of things about who your audience is and generate a ton of buzz.

    The Cool Kids did it, though I don;t know what there status is now-a-days.

    But yeah, its do-a-ble.

    Just tougher.....
     
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  14. assassinmarketing

    assassinmarketing Regular Member

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    True the internet & basement bands inflicted some damage but it really comes down to a degraded useless outdated business structure that was inflexible to change and could not keep up. What really inflicted the killer blow was the label "hierarchy" , the under the table dealings, mob money infusions etc.

    The labels controlled everything and owned the artist.
    most people don't get the fact that just because an artist may have sold platinum didn't mean they got to keep it. The music industry was the one biz that you went into debt for life the day you signed on the dotted line.

    you could have received an advance on $100,000 contract and you had to pay it all back plus interest before you saw a dime of profit. now days even producers & some Engineers get points on the project. Not to mention the fact that songwriters royalties shares were dismal at best.

    It's a dirty business all the way across the board. it's a numbers game and has very little to do with talent and everything to do with who you know and how much $$$ you have.

    I'm not bashing it - I'm just pointing out the fact that this archaic business model is obsolete and plays a major part in the state of the industry.

    like a dilapidated building- sometimes you have to burn it to the ground and start over fresh.

    *These are all industry insights from the "Been There Done That club"
     
  15. abookyent

    abookyent BANNED BANNED

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    Im going to write a long post about this in a few hours.
     
  16. sayyas

    sayyas Junior Member

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    Great post!
    Mc and producer myself here... And IMarketer too
     
  17. GiftGuru

    GiftGuru Supreme Member

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    After attempting to make "millions" promoting musicians for the last few years I have resorted to squeezing $10-$150 at a time from them.

    All musicians are broke, but they will spend 2 or 3 figures for promotion.
     
  18. sayyas

    sayyas Junior Member

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    And by promotion you mean what? What is it that you aré selling them?
     
  19. destinyknight

    destinyknight Newbie

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    This has been a good read. I have been in the music business for the past eight years. The one thing that I tell artists is to understand that its not about the music its about the fans. If you do not have a fan base forgetaboutit. It used to be talent carried the day. Well, if you are talented that is a bonus. Artists need to know how to connect with fans and keep them engage. Its the fans that sustain them.

    As an aside, if you look at the long run history of the arts, artist have always struggled. The period of 1950's through the 1990's (pre-internet collapse) is the exception. Mozart struggled to pay his bills. It used to be back in the day, you only survide based upon patronage. Its the same idea today. Except now the partrons are loyal fans. An indie artist needs to get to 1,000 fans. One thousand hard core money spending fans is what an artist needs to have the potential to make it. As an indie label, I have no interest in a guy or gal unless he can sell a minimum of 20,000 units. That is after he brought me the finished record. Then I covering the marketing and we split 50/50. I might ask for his earlier records to help writedown my risk. It really is a buyers market.
     
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