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Matt Cutts - Himself - Says You May Have to Dump Your Site

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by BLIXX, May 11, 2012.

  1. BLIXX

    BLIXX Regular Member

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    Translation: 'You're probably going to have to dump your site.'

    Sullivan posted his interview with Cutts yesterday:

    Code:
    http://searchengineland.com/google-talks-penguin-update-recover-negative-seo-120463
    As I suggested awhile back here on BHW, this is about ROI: What it is worth to you to continue to plug away at something that is as likely a lost cause as it is something that you might get out of... maybe.
     
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  2. JordanUK

    JordanUK Newbie

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    Thanks for this post. Looks like everyone's going to have to be more stealthy now with SEO.
     
  3. audioguy

    audioguy Power Member

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    This shows that when ranking gains and drops all the time, it's just Dance.

    Algorithm update needs to happen before rankings that were caused by Penguin are restored.
     
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  4. kegnum

    kegnum Senior Member

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    Yea I am pretty sure that we are due for another Panda rape... I would wait to see what that brings before deciding on what types of moves to make.
     
  5. BLIXX

    BLIXX Regular Member

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    It's odd that this was your take-away.

    Penguin - like Panda - is (in essence) a filter, run at whatever intervals Google wants to run it. Still, more than two weeks after the fact, people are still discussing "Dancing" and such as a result of Penguin. The update was run - that's it. All done, until the next re-run of the algorithm. The movements people are seeing now are due to the aspects of the greater algorithm that run daily.

    Penguin, as a filter, will not, does not, and cannot 'restore' anything that it has previously filtered from SERPs - this is not how algorithmic filters work. The purpose of each successive run of the alrogithm is to catch and eliminate new offenders, as well as anything that might have slipped detection on previous runs.

    It's very interesting how resistant most people seem to be about what's actually going on.
     
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    Last edited: May 11, 2012
  6. aftershock2020

    aftershock2020 Senior Member

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    Yeah, you are spot on with that. Panda doesn't replace/restore anything that it flags and removes. It is designed to tag specific points in a site and once flagging them, they are marked and terminated. Google doesn't want the targets in their system at all and the only way to recover lost rank is to put in the proper work after the fact.

    This isn't as simple as getting busted, getting a ticket/penatly mark and moving on. It is a virtual terminator, like out of the movies...comes in, asks for Sarah Connor and then poof, it's gone for good as you know it.

    As far as I've seen on it, it has zero recovery within it's means. It isn't built for having any give. As more of these types of algorythms come to the surface, which there are more that are not public...if your business practices are within their common target lists for grounds, they will take your site out.

    Google has stated for years, especially over the last few months that they are going to take action to prevent specific activities, as though to self-manage/self-censor their area of the internet so that the government doesn't step in with more laws and sanctions, which is the whole point of the crackdown algorythms in the first place.

    All of my front-end business is completely whitehat but, for my friends here...I suggest that everyone pay attention, watch out and take the proper advanced precautions ahead of time instead of waiting to see what google slap comes next from this thing and others like it.

    Don't risk your business income over something trivial that you can prevent from ever being a problem for you in the first place, as it is obviously coming down the line. Move out of it's way and don't even let it have areason to focus on you and your business.

    Nice post, Blixx.
     
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  7. Nordajgt

    Nordajgt Regular Member Premium Member

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    So matt's moral of the story is "just give up". Sorry but if i had that mentality about things i wouldn't be as well off as I am today. I say keep plugging away. Keep gaining organic and natural links. Keep giving searchers the best options and answers for their questions. Keep working, keep grinding and never give up.
     
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  8. BLIXX

    BLIXX Regular Member

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    I think you're missing the point. Perhaps not Matt's, but certainly mine.

    I'll go out on the proverbial limb and say that the majority of the people on this forum that have websites drastically affected by Penguin are going to do exactly what you recommend (plug away), and are going to lose a lot of money in so doing.

    It stands to reason that one is able to recover a site affected due to spammy links by building non-spammy links. The problem is that this threshold is niche-dependent, and requires data that maybe 1% of webmasters have easy access to. The analysis, itself, could take as many as 30-90 days; and, will be thrown-off by sucessive algorithmic runs and daily algorithmic updates and the confusion that ensues for most people.

    In the end, people are going to have to choose between whatever emotional investments they have made with respect to their Penguin-affected site(s), and why they became involved with websites in the first place: To make money.
     
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  9. james406

    james406 Junior Member

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    This is quite a scary thought... it's also insanely unfair on whitehat sites that were hit.

    What kind of frequency do you reckon that they would re-run this filter? I guess they'll have to re-run it so that people now can't violate whatever the hell Penguin penalised before, and not get penalised in the future. However, I wonder if it'll then restore sites which no longer trigger it?
     
  10. acotut

    acotut Elite Member

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    Thanks for the interview :)

    I don't understand why you guys hate on Matt so much,he's just the public person behind google :) .With your blackhat techniques you're just abusing their own system,and you expect them to leave things as they are?
     
  11. jb2008

    jb2008 Senior Member

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    This guy really is a cunt. For the collective pain he has induced and his joy in inflicting that pain, he deserves a lengthy prison sentence, I firmly believe that.

    The issue here really is ROI. Right now, I can build sites: 1 out of 2 will get slapped by Penguin. Because no one is really sure what the fuck causes this, apart from the obvious "don't use public blog networks", I'm not going to change my strategy until there is near certain information as to what will trip the penguin slap and therefore how to avoid it. So effectively, for now, my ROI is cut in half, as well as my current income. And Matt Cunts doesn't give a fuck - he says, you spend all your money, time and effort on a site and doing SEO on it, and if it's slapped by Penguin and you do EVERYTHING to make it 100% spam free, and it still doesn't recover, then Matt Cunts says, ha ha ha too bad. Start again bitch.

    And I'm just making shitty sites which cost me 100 bucks each to build and SEO. What about a 7 year old family business that depends on online revenues to keep afloat? A site that is named after the brand. What the fuck happens then?

    I just don't think this is fair not just because of my own interests, but for average families who put everything into their websites and depend on them. Yes, it's naive to depend on G for traffic but no sane person would expect ridiculous updates like this, well, at least not after Panda and you were in the SEO industry. If you've been #2 for 3 years, you don't rationally expect a fair result to be #237 the next day. But that's exactly what it's like nowadays. I hope soon an investigation is made into Google and they are severely punished.
     
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  12. BLIXX

    BLIXX Regular Member

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    Sites affected by Penguin will come back, sure. But this will not be the result of a 'restoration' nor will it have anything whatsoever to do with Penguin or its purpose.

    Algorithmic filters packed on top of what already governs SERPs are singular in their aim, singular in their function, singular in their ability - they're retarded (for lack of a better word). Sites that reappear with favorable rankings will do so as a result of meeting other, far more primary, algorithmic factors that dictate that site's worthiness to 'reappear'.

    Such sites will either have not done something 'as wrong' as their competitors have; or, will have hit the 'sweet spot' in the greater algorithm that dictates SERPs placements.

    I don't mean to mock anyone, and I really do hope this is taken the right way, but the great majority of people that experience this are going to be people that fall back-asswards into it. It's not a good bet.
     
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  13. siteking

    siteking Junior Member

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    Tragic, but rest assure my fellow spammers, I have something in store for all of yas!
     
  14. assphuck

    assphuck Senior Member

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    Admit the facts - Google is just becoming a Fortune 500 search engine that displays only major brands traded on the stock exchange. Diversify traffic sources through social media. I'd rather give FB my $ anyway instead of feeding the 800 lb gorilla more bananas!

    Thanks for posting the link Blixx. I had not read it yet. :)
     
  15. WebDev

    WebDev Regular Member

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    I've just read some good stuff that may help a lot of people regarding their sites tanking post panda and penguin:

    thelazymarketer.com/blog/2012/05/09/how-to-rank-after-google-penguin-and-how-to-recover-if-your-site-got-hit/#.T60B6MWd6So

    I hope you find some answers there to help you if you've been hit by Google
     
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  16. ajithrocksca

    ajithrocksca Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    The guys who are speaking in favor of cutts and google should remember one thing. It is not that google is showing up great results which helps the end user. it is throwing up some xrumer links and zero content websites. There is nothing like white hat and black hat in business.

    Adsense which is asking the publishers to blend in the ads so that they look a part of the website is a blackhat technique isn't it? 90% of good black hatters here, provide exceptional information to the users. Some of the best built websites with content are run by members out here. It is google which introduced the concept of blackhat link building. They introduced the concept of PR and ranking based on backlink count and quality and anchor texts. Which effectively means the internet which was an even playing field until then changed. Top websites with their money power can buy links anywhere, force anyone to blog about them. What about the small players who offer quality content? sometime even better than the top sites? They had no other way.. they have to build backlinks one way or the other. Now, google is saying no SEO is necessary, we know how to find quality content and we will rank quality content. In that case they should have done it before.

    I am not affected by panda/penguin; in fact two sites are getting more traffic now. The point is google has become like a God, controlling thousands of lives. It is time people wake up and focus on alternate traffic sources. Google for sure will face a slow death..
     
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  17. Nordajgt

    Nordajgt Regular Member Premium Member

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    You don't have to tell me friend, my site got hammered and just today i'm seeing some recovery.
     
  18. BLIXX

    BLIXX Regular Member

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    I really like your post, jb2008. Probably becasue it piques my current interests as regards the legal aether in which Google - almost magically - operates.

    Aside from my genuine and heart-felt appreciation for so-called 'Black Hatters' as one of the only two definitive pioneers of Search results, I find myself torn between an almost surreal disdain of Google and respect of them as an entity for the exact same reasons: Flip-side of the same, one coin.

    There has always been this chasm between what Google says to do, and what their search engine actually does. Naturally, SEO professionals formulate a definition of SEO that is far more conformist with the latter: We all want results for our clientele and ourselves; we go years sometimes between what Google rewards and what Google - spontaneously - no longer does.

    Google has an absolute monopoly on the very definition of SEO, as a result: Literally, what is rewarded one day, and therefore implemented by us, is punished the next, in the highest extreme: WE pay Google's evolutionary toll.....

    This is oligarchy, by definition.

    All interesting philosophy on the matter aside, this situation is currently what it is; and the people who want to stubborn themselves through the realities of what is occurring are going to be very disappointed.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
  19. shaun_shaun

    shaun_shaun Junior Member

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    someone spam the Matt Cunts site with porn keywords. so he may start all over again!
     
  20. Stizerg

    Stizerg Power Member

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    No, he will get more traffic then, because too many people want to have unusual sex with Matt.
     
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