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Making Money with Flipping PLR Products / Sites

Discussion in 'Site Flipping' started by bryanon, Feb 13, 2010.

  1. bryanon

    bryanon Executive VIP Premium Member

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    Hey there,

    I decided to open this thread because there's been a few e-products (books, video courses) released lately that teach how to make money by selling PLR products / sites on Flippa. However, since those products provide extremely over-hyped information, I'll give a little bit of insights on things that the authors of these books DON'T want you to know (or perhaps can't even think of, as they haven't tried their own 'methods' more than once or twice).

    Let's get started, shall we?

    What's PLR Flipping all about?

    The concept itself is pretty simple, and instead of buying a $47 book or a $97 video course WSO, you can just read the following paragraph:

    1. Buy a PLR product (you can find full-rights products for as low as $1 on places like Tradebit)

    2. Register a domain name that matches the product (so for instance, if the product is "Killer Blackhat Secrets" and killerblackhatsecrets.com is taken, then you would go with something like blackhatsecretsrevealed.com (some even use .infos, but I really don't recommend being THAT cheap).

    2. Either create a unique-looking sales page or use the one that shipped within the PLR package.

    3. Load the sales page up on your newly acquired domain name.

    4. List the whole thing for sale on Flippa and get anywhere between $40 and $300 for it.

    Sounds like easy money? Sure! But in reality, there's quite a bit more into it, which I'll go through below.

    Let me dive further by starting this in a FAQ form - addressing the two questions that are perhaps the only important ones:

    Is it still possible to make money with this method?

    Sure! Not only possible but pretty easy - but that's ONLY given that you're willing to think further, optimize your actions as you see fit, and don't back off when you see that your first site or two don't sell.

    Is it profitable? Are the "$400 a day" claims given by some correct?

    Yes, it's profitable. Period. But not if you're one of the guys who tends to do everything "by the book", i.e. you do EXACTLY as the "method" says and even use the auction listing templates provided, rather than coming up with your own.

    Having said, the true question for serious marketers is HOW profitable it is. Let's look at the following example:

    You buy a PLR product ($5), a domain name ($10), list the whole thing on Flippa ($19), spend around 2 hours on it and end up selling the whole thing for $197 (realistic). A simple calculation shows that your hourly rate would be $81.50 - not too shabby, is it?

    But that's exactly the kind of calculation you find on a SALES PAGE of a book that describes this method. In reality, we will have to look far further and question all parts of the above claim.

    1) Will it really take you only 2 hours to set up such product/listing?

    Nope, there's a high likelyhood that it will take you A LOT more than that. The reason for this is simple - while the one trying to sell you the method will not only tell you, but SHOW YOU and PROVE YOU that it won't take more than 2 hours, consider the following:

    - how much time will you spend on refreshing your listing to see if there are any new bids, how many watchers it has etc. etc.?
    - how much time will you spend answering comments and PMs about your listing?
    - how much time will you spend AFTER the sale to get everything transferred to the new owner AND to answer all of their (usually newbie-ish) questions? (Note: you HAVE TO do it if you want to keep your good reputation on Flippa)

    Thinking about all of this, we will quickly see that a much more realistic figure is 4-5 hours per listing. Fair enough, this leaves you with an hourly rate of around $36. Still pretty decent for beginners or those living in cheap countries.

    2) But what about costs? Is $34 really all that it takes?

    You guessed it, it's not!

    Sure! For $34 you can get all the necessities in place (given that you already have an unlimited hosting account but those cost next to nothing these days) and will get your listing up on Flippa, BUT --

    Did you know that it's EXTREMELY HARD to get any bids on Flippa, unless your auction appears in one of the featured categories, such as the front page - (a $29 cost), the "most viewed" section (you need bids for this) or the "ending soon" section (yep, every auction is going to be in there for a while but only for a while and it still takes upgrades such as row highlighting ($5) or title in bold ($5) to stand out over there).

    The conclusion is simple - if you choose to invest exactly $34 and not a penny more then a large number of your listings will be UNSOLD, which means that a whole bunch of money has to be deducted from your income calculations, including your hourly rate. On the other hand, if you choose to go with a few upgrades (such as listing featured on the front page and listing title in bold) then the cost will be $68 instead of $35, keeping your hourly rate at $28 NOT CONSIDERING that you will still have an auction every now and than that will be unsold, you're likely to get a a paypal dispute or three, and there are fees associated to converting the "virtual money" into cash as well.

    Realisticly speaking - with this method, you can perhaps count with an average hourly rate of approximately $15. For some, this could be exactly what they're looking for (and probably a FANTASTIC starting point for beginners) but personally I wouldn't bother to do anything for this kind of money.

    Which brings us to:

    The automation, outsourcing and scale-up options

    Now THIS is where the money is. If you can find a solid bunch of outsourcers who can do all of the above for you on an hourly rate of, say, $5, and at the same time won't run away with your idea/money, then you've done it! But remember that the outsourcer needs to be someone who you can trust (so that they wouldn't steal the method from you), as well as someone who is qualified enough to answer all of the questions, etc.! If you think you can find people like this then go ahead and star NOW!

    As for the scale-up possibilities, unfortunately they're not exactly great. The reason for this is simple - while Flippa has A LOT of traffic and A LOT of buyers, you will find that the numbers are still way too small to sell two similar sites at the same time without having the auctions interfere each other, meaning that, realisticly, you could get away will doing one site a day, but not more.

    Finally, let's talk about saturation.

    Those who know me or have read some of my posts here on BHW know that saturation is a word that pretty much doesn't exist in my vocabulary. Instead, I use the word "improvement" a lot.

    But anticipating that at least 50% of the readers of this thread ask me "Is it or is it going to be saturated?" as their very first question, here's an answer for you:

    Looking around on Flippa, it's safe to say that NO, it's not saturated yet. You can still make a penny or two if you follow the steps outlined in the beginning of this post to the point - but penny or two it is, and not more. Is it going to be saturated? Probably. I can already see a whole bunch of PLR products listed daily on Flippa and soon it will reach the limit where there's simply way too much on offer, compared to the demand.

    Your job here is to identify the OPPORTUNITIES and come up with IMPROVEMENTS to the method. Let's look at a few simple ones:

    1) Change the name of the product (and the sales letter graphics) so that it would look more unique - surely this will attract more buyers.

    2) Get a unique design and a unique sales copy - a great thing to do, especially with Flippa's "X Copies Found" alert, but it costs either time or money so your profit might decrease considerably.

    3) List the product on a few "easy" market places, get some sales, and sell it as a profitable business - great idea and done by many. (Un)fortunately, Flippa hates listings like this and is constantly trying to fight against them - shown by their recent update after which it's not allowed to claim any profit if your site is less than a month old.

    The bottom line is - come up with YOUR OWN improvements, and you'll make a whole lot more money than with copying what others are doing!

    Conclusion

    In conclusion, I do think this model is still a good thing to experiment with, and learn from, as it shows you not only the world of site flipping but also the world of marketing in general, but if you invest no creativity into this then it's most definitely not a long-time money earner.

    What I suggest every newbie who is looking to get started is to give it a try, make some initial money, fail a few times, improve, fail again but not as badly as before, and keep on going through the same loop until you find your own way which will provide you with a sustainable income and is something you also truly enjoy.

    Good luck!

    Bryan
     
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  2. charlieman999

    charlieman999 Regular Member

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    Great post thanks, never tried website flipping, are you doing this yourself? How much are you earning?
     
  3. meathead1234

    meathead1234 Moderator Staff Member Moderator Premium Member

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    Brilliant post again, Bryan.

    The improvement part is right on the money too. As I mentioned in my 101 post, everyone has something they are good at - so they should focus using that to improve a method. If you're a great writer - you could write an ebook in half a day and add the "unique" part into the sales thread.

    I do think that this is a good way to start out if you a new to the game. The profits might not be as high as other methods, but it's a great way to learn and doesn't require too much money upfront.

    You'll soon learn what buyers are looking for and what YOU specifically can offer.
     
  4. meathead1234

    meathead1234 Moderator Staff Member Moderator Premium Member

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    Do you really think with a post like that he's not doing it himself :rolleyes:

    There's money in it once you know what you are doing. I believe Bryan had a good deal go through earlier today in fact :D
     
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  5. tanay46

    tanay46 Registered Member

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    Wow, nice idea. Thanks for sharing. Do you think its worth it to build some traffic or backlinks to the site, or is it better to sell straight away?
     
  6. meathead1234

    meathead1234 Moderator Staff Member Moderator Premium Member

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    Sell it straight away with an incentivised BIN (offer them promotion etc if it hits BIN).

    Main reason for this: once a site is established/been promoted it will sell for a multiple of monthly revenue, when a site is new it will sell [name price] so it's best just to sell it straight off.
     
  7. nouseforaname

    nouseforaname Junior Member

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    I've sold URL Shortening service for $137, my first site flipped. This is what I applied.
     
  8. meathead1234

    meathead1234 Moderator Staff Member Moderator Premium Member

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    Nice one mate :) Let's hope it's one of many to come
     
  9. iMike

    iMike Newbie

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    Its really simple...

    1. Buy PLR product for anywhere between $7.99 and $29.99.
    2. Set it up on your own domain
    3. Rewrite sales page in your own words(to get past copyscape)
    4. List as is and it WILL sell... at least for now until its completely saturated
    It works... ive done it repeatedly and its quick easy cash. One site will take you 2 hours if you know what your doing. Video packages sell the best.
     
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  10. older_guy

    older_guy Newbie

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    Wow - this may help save my ass. My income dropped from $1k a week to $0 last month due to getting kicked out of EPN (with .14 epc - all wh - thank you very much) and a friend's business that I was working at going under. I just found this place and it has given me a bunch of ideas - I want to focus on CPA and PPV - I am approved at a bunch of places but don't have any money to spend on PPV.

    What I do have is a ton of PLR products and a dedicated server I can offer hosting as an incentive to get bettwr price,

    On the PLR material - does it only work with Internet Marketing, make money niche? I have a t of PLR stuff in other niches - I can crank out SEO optimised WP site with sales page in 30 minutes. Should I just do the IM stuff or do others like health related?
     
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  11. shankyblue

    shankyblue Newbie

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    Wow excellent post. Ive done a lot of research into this as well as some experimentation, so this was a fascinating read. One thing I would like to point out to noobs is that you need to look deep into the users profiles on Flippa. If your about to sell an adsense site find adsense site sellers and watch them. Doing this I have not found anybody that has a higher success rate than 80%. So you will get losers and they could be among your batch.

    If your going to try this rather than buy a single PLR product I recommend you get membership to a high quality PLR site such as Monthly Content about $37 a month. Ive been a member of many and they all have the same stuff but that site has tons more. While your a member for the first month download as much stuff as your HD can handle then cancel, you will get enough to last for years.

    Ive seen so much PLR from membership sites been sold on Flippa for $100's. Ive have just sold a PLR ebook for nearly $250.

    I put a portion of the profits from selling PLR type stuff into established sites to flip later and the rest into modifying PLR then flipping.

    Bryanon as mentioned not copying what others are doing, however at certain times I have seen certain types of sites sell like crazy and I joined the party and made good money. So if the waves high ride it, but to make real money you will need to diversify.
     
  12. shankyblue

    shankyblue Newbie

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    Ive said this many times and I'll keep saying it. With regards to niches and whats selling just go over to Flippa now and check whats just sold or ending soon. That will take you literally 10 minutes. Nobody can tell what will sell.

    Its not about what will sell, its about what the market wants.
     
  13. meathead1234

    meathead1234 Moderator Staff Member Moderator Premium Member

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    Good points but only thing about this is that bear in mind some people settle sales outside of Flippa. My last 4 XXXX sales were settled privately after listing on Flippa - so if you looked at my stats you would think not all my auctions sell, whereas in reality they do :)
     
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  14. older_guy

    older_guy Newbie

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    Settle outside of flippa? Is that because negotiated different price or terms?
     
  15. meathead1234

    meathead1234 Moderator Staff Member Moderator Premium Member

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    Flippa have a "success" fee of 5% (usually split with buyer) so if I sold a site for 3k it would cost me $75 in fees if split which adds up especially after paying for listing.

    Generally that would be the only reason to settle outside of Flippa.
     
  16. BHMMO

    BHMMO Newbie

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    How are you settling outside of flippa do you set a reserve ? and then contact bidders after reserve not reached?
     
  17. thinkinghat

    thinkinghat Regular Member

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    i know people do this a lot on flippa,,but i am skeptical @ this..what you tell when buyer ask you about uniqueness of product? do you tell them its a plr product? all this products are already sold on clickbank..so do clickbank allow such products (if they got to know @ its originality)..
     
  18. shankyblue

    shankyblue Newbie

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    Dude I cannot believe how dumb buyers are on flippa. I have seen many auctions recently where the "Possible Copies Found" section shows like 50 copies and buyers paying over $300 for this. OMG the mind boggles.

    My last couple of buyers were so stupid I was about to go insane. I sent them 4 files after the auction and they could not find one of them. After numerous emails I had to skype them. I said tell me exactly what files you have in front of you one by one and BINGO "oh that one I did not see that" jeeez

    If you are selling PLR mention something like. High quality professionally edited. I had somebody ask what is PLR.

    Can you see how easy this is ?
     
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  19. bryanon

    bryanon Executive VIP Premium Member

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    I suggest you do - if you care about your reputation the slightest bit.

    Yes, otherwise I would sue them for discriminating - (how am I less of an owner of a PLR product than the person who got their hands on it first and enrolled it on CB)?
     
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  20. jamesss

    jamesss Regular Member

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    is there a way to jump "success" fee of 5%