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Liberty Reserve: Receiving online payments / Withdrawing funds Anonymously..?

Discussion in 'Making Money' started by timmylang, May 11, 2012.

  1. timmylang

    timmylang Junior Member

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    Hey guys.. Im hoping someone can help me with some clear info on this issue.

    I already know that I need an exchanger to add funds / withdraw funds from my liberty reserve account...

    I'm trying to figure out, how this process will work, if I'm trying to receive payments from customers online anonymously, and then withdraw funds anonymously. (and hopefully receive funds from paypal customers).


    Lets say I want someone to come to my site, and purchase from me with their paypal account, and it goes to my LR account.. whats the steps in doing this anonymously?

    Do I just use a fake name for LR and fake name for exchanger and the customer pays the exchanger? And then I transfer money from exchanger to LR account?

    If so, when withdrawing money from LR account.. If I used a fake name... What are the best options here?

    I saw one exchanger that lets you withdraw money via a debit card.. So I guess i'd just take the cash out of ATM and put it in my real bank account?

    I should say nothing I'm doing is illegal, just blackhat stuff that I want to be bullet proof as far as tracing.


    Can anyone who already has experience with this give a detailed outline on how to receive online payments and then how to withdraw money? I dont want to have to tell all potential customers to: "Create a liberty reserve account, then sign up to an exchanger... buy LR funds using your exchanger account, and then pay me"..

    that seems like a hassle. I'd like to receive paypal payments and still remain anonymous.


    rep and thanks will be added for anyone who can help!! will greatly appreciate it, as this can be confusing.
     
  2. timmylang

    timmylang Junior Member

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    here is a diagram I made... if someone can feel in the ??? :)


    (start) $Customer$ With Paypal >> ??? >> My Liberty Reseve Account >> Exchanger >> Debit Card / My Bank Account (finished)
     
  3. cool0403

    cool0403 BANNED BANNED

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    Because of the chargeback people can get from paypal, a lot of people take liberty reserve. So in other words to get paypal to liberty reserve you need to do it through a middleman, and these guys usually charge 20-30% fee for doing it with a waiting time of usually 3-5 days.

    That is why liberty reserve costs more than paypal, and also once you have liberty reserve is pretty much like anonymous money. There is no need to put a real liberty reserve name on it since there isn't no really limiting like paypal does.You can get an exchanger at hackforums.net.

    Now if you have bitcoins, then its easier to get liberty reserve. You can buy/sell your bitcoins at the https://mtgox.com for liberty reserve.
    Thats why i said go to silkroad and look for those people that can do moneypaks for bitcoins, it usually 10% fee with that, plus the 5 dollar from moneypak. Then go over to the mtgox market and sell your bitcoins , they will send you liberty reserve.

    Keep in mind, when your dealing with liberty reserve and bitcoins, those are very anonymous currencies used in the black market so using paypal to buy those type of currencies is very hard due to the chargeback sellers take as there is no going back once you send liberty reserve and bitcoins so there is usually a high premium attached to it when there is an exchange being done.
     
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  4. timmylang

    timmylang Junior Member

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    Ok.... thanks bro.. but, lets pretend I'm super slow (which I am on this subject)..

    you are saying, I should not accept paypal payments period? when you say "paypal chargebacks", if the money is already in my exchanger account or whatever, they cant charge it back then, right?

    and ok, 20 to 30% is too much....

    so, are you basically saying: anyone I sell to online, if I want to remain annonymous, I should just tell them to get a liberty reserve account


    let me know if that statement is correct... I've been going over this for the last few hours, and am still stumped slightly..

    treat me like a kindegardner :)


    (start) $Customer$ With Money >> Their exchanger / webmoney etc >> Their liberty reserve account >> My Liberty Reseve Account >> My Exchanger >> Debit Card / My Bank Account (finished)


    Is that the only way to do it annonymously? I basically want to make it as easy on the customer as possible, while remaining annonymous... please let me know
     
  5. zebrahat

    zebrahat Elite Member

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    For US customers, tell them to withdraw Paypal to moneypak and send you the pin number, then you go through the hassle of converting it to LR. For non-US customers, or those who won't use moneypak, only work with someone with a forum reputation or i-trade you trust for a Paypal transaction. All others must use the harder methods. This way you've made it simple on the customer side, while reasonably retaining you own protection from chargebacks.
     
  6. cool0403

    cool0403 BANNED BANNED

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    See if your not selling anything illegal, sketchy , or stuff that paypal can't take then you don't need to go throught the hustle of getting liberty reserve. Liberty reserve is used as like an underground currency, people who take liberty reserve don't really take paypal as an option.

    What i meant exchanger is basically like think about liberty reserve as gold, in a way that once you send this gold to someone you cannot get it back or do a chargeback. Basically, when you take liberty reserve as a payment there is no way to charge back and its usually a way to remain anonymous, a type of payment to leave no paper trail.
    No one really uses liberty reserve unless they are selling some very anonymous stuff or underground, other wise use paypal.

    There is a reason why is 20-30% premium, cause paypal you can always chargeback when you send money out and can escalate it to a claim. So in the scenario of person A sends person B paypal cash for liberty reserve, if person A does a chargeback on person B paypals account after person B sent the money in Liberty Reserve. Person B has a change of losing his money, while Person A doesn't because you can't do a chargeback on liberty reserve.
     
  7. timmylang

    timmylang Junior Member

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    I just looked at my paypal account.. it lets you add money by moneypak, but not withdraw... and isnt moneypak something the customer would have to go to the store and buy??

    and ok, if they give me the pin number, they still have the pin number.. so, i'd then need to change the pin number before sending the product..


    At least this is what i interpret... there has to be an overall easier way to receive payments online..

    Im not doing anything illegal.. I just want to cover my tracks doing blackhat stuff... what about 2checkout? avangate? or something else?


    and to coolguy, i do not want to receive payments by paypal and potentially deal with: chargebacks, account getting limited, or reveal my real identity and a bunch of crap like that... are you saying set up a fake paypal account?
     
  8. zebrahat

    zebrahat Elite Member

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    Yes, the person seeking LR funds has to withdraw cash from Paypal, then buy the moneypak and pass the pin to the person providing the LR. Once the latter has added the moneypak funds to their PP, they are protected from a PP chargeback, which is why the funds were used to get the moneypak in the first place. The person seeking the LR funds should just ensure they are dealing with a reputable person who will send the LR funds. This is one of the only ways to make the transaction effectively irreversable on both sides, despite one side starting from PP funds. It does not make such deals risk-free or simpler on both sides, it just makes it as simple as possible for the buyer of LR to quickly do, while still potecting the seller.
     
  9. MiLiTARYiV

    MiLiTARYiV Senior Member

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    Doesnt matter now:

    on Friday was arrested in Spain as part of a money laundering investigation performed jointly by police agencies in the United States and Costa Rica.

    Costa Rican prosecutor José Pablo González said Budovsky, a Costa Rican citizen of Ukrainian origin, has been under investigation since 2011 for money laundering using a company he created in the country called Liberty Reserve.

    Local investigations began after a request from a prosecutor’s office in New York. On Friday, San José prosecutors conducted raids in Budovsky’s house and offices in Escazá, Santa Ana, southwest of San José, and in the province of Heredia, north of the capital.

    Budovsky’s businesses in Costa Rica apparently were financed by using money from child pornography websites and drug trafficking.”

    Now what this means

    well for starters it looks like Liberty reserve will remain down which is a shame since its one of the only centralized anonymous payment methods and very popular among privacy related services like VPN’s,seedboxes,proxy sites,hosting etc.

    LibertyReserve has alot of history being one of the first online payment systems and websites as well as possibly the first offshore online payment provider and possibly the first anonymous one.

    it’s been used for everything from prestigious and respectable businesses to laundering money from organized crime to transferring funds from credit card fraud, to helping people pay for things privately.


    Paypal is popping bottles right now!
     
  10. MrVentures

    MrVentures Junior Member

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    This is a HUGE blow to us marketers. Nothing like sending payments with total security. Now, it appears another one bites the dust. What's the next best option??
     
  11. zebrahat

    zebrahat Elite Member

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    BITCOIN. Feds can't seize it, freeze it, arrest it or shut it down. They can harass third party exchangers/sites, but that can be worked around by dealing with off shore parties, or trading directly without third parties. We do strongly need a stable processor, though, with a simple interface or front-end for doing Bitcoin-based transactions. Perhaps a coder team can develop an open source script/plugin for Bitcoin that could emulate the simplicity of LR transactions between direct parties, using the already existing Bitcoin system?
     
  12. Brovashift

    Brovashift Newbie

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    Hi, long time reader first time poster :)

    With LR gone now isnt webmoney a good substitute?

    I know that anonymous payments can be processed through them, although some initial paperwork is required to show you arethe owner of a particular business, not sure how strict they are on the quality of the documents but the fact its all done online means there should be a work around...

    CC payments taken via webmoney could then be used to buy your bitcoins, not too sure how the bitcoins work yet,but would imagin that your ID would have to be used at some point in order to get your hands ome tangible cash... unless you can open a bank account as someone else, and then withdraw via atm, but thats a topic for another post..

    Is that feasable or have i missunderstood ?

    UPDATE: just been looking at eNumbered, looks like the new LR, and they offer an anon debit card, and accept cc.What you guys think?
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2013
  13. zebrahat

    zebrahat Elite Member

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    Ripple and eNumbered look good indeed, they are exactly the peer-to-peer/decentralized solutions I suggested was needed for a processor in light of the success of Bitcoin and the destruction of LR. Webmoney has a very unintuitive interface, over-verifies everything too much per each transaction, and only seems to want members from the Russian/slavic regions of the world.
     
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  14. Brovashift

    Brovashift Newbie

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    Ive been doing some reading today on eNumbered and Rippled; it looks like someone is already not happy with eNumbered as it looks like someone has highjacked their "website snippet in the Google listing" complaining that eNumbered have froze his account with 45K in it.... Ouch! That's not a good sign, and I also notice that the debit card they're offering is only going to work in certain areas of the world, as it does not have the chip, which all European ATM's now require. It looked too good to be true!

    Ripple looks OK, but this is in Beta... so may come with its own problems, together with the currently low user rate. It does look promising however.

    There are a number of Bitcoin plugins that allow you to process Bitcoin payment, but this still requires customers to have Bitcoins or be willing to sign up and purchase Bitcoin. Depending on your merchandise and customer base this may present a negative experience and limit sales. What would be ideal is a Bitcoin API gateway that accepted an array of payment option and automatically turned them into Bitcoin purchases. So the customers experience sees cash, CC, PayPal etc. and you receive Bitcoins straight into your Wallet, so the customer is effectively purchasing your item and purchasing Bitcoins in the same process. This way both parties are covered (by charge backs) in case anything was to go wrong, and you keep your anonymity... and the world keeps spinning... :)

    Anyone know of a plugin like this, or anyone feel like throwing one together..? :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2013
  15. toptoptop

    toptoptop BANNED BANNED

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    Hay man.
    I work with WebMoney for almost 4 years now.
    It isn't bad at all but it can block your account at any time they want.
    I think that for now PerfectMoney is the best replacement for LR but who knows what will happen to them.
    Almost everyone who used LR now is using PM.

    eNumbered- I think is a scam and isn't that papular aswell.

    Well maybe. I never had any problems with them but I'm from Russia and many others even from Russia had bad luck with them.

    Such thing will result in a big fraud.
     
  16. Brovashift

    Brovashift Newbie

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    Fraud..? Have I missed something?

    If a customer purchases items from a site using e.g. PayPal, and then you used that payment to purchase Bitcoins, that wouldn't be fraud, would it?

    May constitute borderline tax avoidance... or evasion! :confused: But what with the likes of Google, Starbucks, Amazon etc. all finding loop holes to avoid paying their fair share, I don't think I'd lose any sleep over it either.

    UPDATE: yes, actually it might do.... because they would be purchasing something they were not intending to buy.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2013
  17. ContentLockPro

    ContentLockPro Power Member Premium Member

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    Perfect money seems like the best alternative in terms of getting payments.
     
  18. zebrahat

    zebrahat Elite Member

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    PM is the most similar alternative to LR. In light of the LR shutdown that was led by the US, however, PM prohibits US users at this time, preventing new US sign-ups from completing registration, and even locking out or warning existing members who log in from a US IP. US folks should make sure you have a good non-US VPN (that works every time) in order to use PM.
     
  19. unclemike

    unclemike BANNED BANNED

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    That is a smart move with PerfectMoney not accepting US Clients though :)
     
  20. Vrill

    Vrill BANNED BANNED

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    enumbered has a lot of scam reports.Dont know if they are fake or not and am also not willing to check it out myself.People write withdrawing money out of enumbered is impossible and somebody else is claiming their debit card is from poland and has a daily limit of $150