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Liars and Players

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by CEPI, Apr 20, 2010.

  1. CEPI

    CEPI Power Member

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    I posted this to the Lounge and apologize if it disrupts the main feed flow.

    Since we all seem to deal in a lot of business transactions on a daily and weekly basis I wanted to throw out some info on what I specialize in which is human psychology, which i use for business consulting, employee training and also connecting with consumers. There is a "not so pleasant" flip-side I have encountered many times in dealing with business partners and colleagues that I wanted to help you all out to recognize if it should happen to you. That is PLAYERS and LIARS. I have dealt with a few in personal and business life (yes even with one from this forum which was handled quickly and effectively) and wanted to share my formally trained and informal experience on what to look for.


    Below you will see 5 things to look out for, most players and liars will exhibit at least 3 of the 5 traits. I mean every single one should be a red flag in their own right but if it is just one thing then give them the benefit of the doubt for now until you have more information, but having at least three is a reason to end the friendship, conversation, relationship, or business partnership because you are walking your death march into getting played.


    Players and Liars. Warning Signs:

    1. Way too confident and outgoing in the first meeting face-to-face or on the phone. A player gets where they are from being good at what they do. The way you make most people feel comfortable on a psychological level is to mirror their demeanor to an extent until both are more comfortable. A player on the other hand, could care less, he takes control immediately in a calculated manner and rarely makes a nervous mistake.

    2. Checklisting: A player or liar will do what I call "checklisting" the very first time you encounter them. It almost feels like an interview. They know the traits of the kind of person who will allow them to lie, or allow them to "play them" and so they find this "weaker" person by checklisting. What kind of shoes do you like? How do you like your man to dress? What is your business experience, hobbies, kids, wife/husband, religion, politics, views on political topics, do you like any charities... these are all completely normal over the course of a relationship albeit business or personal, but when you get these all within the first hour or first meeting be prepared. You are being sized up by a player who will want to set his mental boundaries on how much he can lie to you and what buttons to push.

    3. The Phantom: This one is pretty easy to spot. I understand in business having a private life is important but after doing business with someone for any amount of time you generally know SOMETHING about the person so if after a few years they are still a complete mystery something is going on. On a relationship side this is really easy to spot in a man or woman. Things like taking private calls, rushing out of the room to answer the phone, keeping the phone on silent, never circulating as a couple, never seeing their parents or other family members ever being spoken about, and the biggest red flag of all... Never being invited to his/her residence at any point in the relationship. You are getting played.

    4. Katy Perry Style: You know "Hot & Cold", this is a method a lot of players and liars called that has a technical term called "raking". When you rake, you push something up, pull it back, try to make a big separation. This plays with the emotions of a players victim so badly. One second you are getting, "oh everything is going amazing, the business deal is almost done we are going to make so much money on this deal" to the next couple days not being able to get a hold of that person allowing your emotions to crash and wonder what's going on. Same in a personal relationship. "oh i think you are my soul-mate" to not seeing them for two weeks only to hear an excuse as to why not. Players and liars chase, but don't like the conquer so expect a lot of raking to make sure you are prime to pick up and drop over and over. Also always be aware of what is TRULY going on THAT EXACT MOMENT in the friendship and relationship and not what the player always says which will be "future tense" things like, "oh i cant wait until we do this" or "well when this day comes I want to take you here or there" don't get caught in the future possibilities because players and liars will rake you forever and the "someday" never comes.

    5. Pilot Pants McGhee: Always flying around. Watch out for the people who can never commit to an event or even keep the time for a phone call. They never commit to anything, instead give you a brush off, a maybe, and then at the last minute will weigh in all of their options and choose the one that best suits their ego. They will ALWAYS have emergencies to handle, have to take care of an "issue at work" have bad cell service, a call on the other line, dead battery, odd working hours, can only access emails, THEY ARE ALL LIES! Well maybe a couple might not be but if this is a constant in work or in personal relationships... enjoy getting played!

    So what does a player get out of it? Many things,but above all the lying and playerism is caused by them not even trusting in themselves. Could be from things growing up, or even a hardening to empathy where they just don't care about other people's feelings anymore. It is a deep rooted psychological issue and needs to be addressed because detriment of huge proportions come from peoples lies and deceit.

    Hopefully you have learned a little something about spotting your player or the liar in your life. Personal, business, friends, family... all could lie and all could have similar traits. If you notice these patterns address them and be VERY up front with the person. If they don't fess up (which most won't) then you need to limit your contact to them. Most of the time in confrontation a player will either keep talking, or just never talk to you again and move to the next victim!

    Do business with ethics, blackhat doesn't mean "liar hat", especially in dealing with each other.. and most of all Stay Classy Planet Blackhat.
     
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  2. dnreg

    dnreg Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    This is a damn good post.
     
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  3. ForeverNever

    ForeverNever Power Member

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    dude holy shit i wish i could give you more thanks and rep.

    You described someone in my life at #3 perfectly.

    Actually all 5 of them describe that person.

    I hate this man with a fiery passion. I wish my fiancee could see she was getting played when she did it. :(
     
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    Last edited: Apr 20, 2010
  4. CEPI

    CEPI Power Member

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    Thanks for the great response guys, I hope it can help some people and I am writing on this topic extensively for a hard published book coming out very late in the year.

    Figured I wanted to hit some of the New Year's Resolutioners who want to start fresh by getting players out of their lives.

    I have been this "player" to many women in my life before so I was going back and forth between writing a "tell all" how to be a player book, or a "here's what to look for, watch out for liars and players" book. Since I have been honest in business, and faithful to my significant other and living SUCH a better life because of it now for several years, I felt much more compelled to help people improve, not assist them to continue down a road of destruction and negativity.

    Thanks a lot for listening.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 20, 2010
  5. CEPI

    CEPI Power Member

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    I have studied NLP formally in school in a few classes even though international finance was my major, and I do enjoy "some" Brian Tracy stuff, but unfortunately a lot of the gurus just pass along observations of what they see in a charismatic way but never seem to give you reasons as to why they do it. Worse off they never seem to point out the reasons that an individual allows themselves to be treated how they are.

    I guess I have been lucky enough to see the big picture in things. I see why people tick how they do and it helps me understand so much better than most. Psychology is my "painting" and the kind of art I am naturally good at.

    However, when it comes to other things like figuring out why a proxy won't work or all of my twitter accounts always get banned or why I can't draw anything further than stick figures.... I couldn't answer those, LOL
     
  6. CEPI

    CEPI Power Member

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    I am not looking to break into the field really of writing how to be a player books or anything like it. My book has everyday examples but is pretty loaded with psychobabble too so it won't really appeal tot he ebook crowd or the 18 year old kid trying to get laid.

    It is actually going to be used by a law group in NY who does private investigation work for wall street and also helps wealthy couples understand why one or the other is having an affair or lying to their spouse. It still has some funny stories but will be used in a more therapeutic fashion for men and women who have been put through the ringer by a spouse.
     
  7. virtualc08

    virtualc08 Supreme Member

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    I am serious looking forward for your book man.. +1 for this great post...
     
  8. CEPI

    CEPI Power Member

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    I understand and a lot of the times the person does know they are getting played but there is something hardwired inside that builds the fear of exposing the truth and moving forward. Usually it's because the person doing the playing has already established the one keynote area of their victims life that is most important and they manipulate that portion to their advantage.

    So they could be 99% an a**hole but that 1% that they act properly is in the one area of their victims life that impacts them enough to keep them around. You see women being with horrible men all of the time and it may be for security because the man says they "look hot" or it may be for money, not because she couldn't make the money on her own, but she has a fear of stepping out into the world of rejection and realism so it's much easier to take abuse but still have things paid for.

    It takes a LOT of courage to admit when you have been played or lied to because in a sense you are admitting that you lowered your self worth and allowed it to happen to fulfill a diminished part within yourself. So there is a good chance she may never admit it until she just admits the deeper reason of what human needs she was fulfilling by staying with him in the first place.

    A slippery slope my friend, one that takes a soft foot to tread.
     
  9. ForeverNever

    ForeverNever Power Member

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    She realized she was played, to a degree. We are back together and trying to get past what she did but I take some of the blame (not near all of it) off of her because this guy has so many more stories the exact same as her.

    I seriously just want this fucking car salesman gone. He still works in the building right next to her.

    And by the way - There was a "1%" that this man zeroed in on. It was really my only negative quality towards her, and he claimed the exact opposite without even mentioning me. (sorry if I lost you)

    I'd really like to talk to you more about this, seriously.
     
  10. therat

    therat Regular Member

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    You have been posting a lot recently and all of your posts are Extremely Informative

    There area many intelligent people on BHW but few of them take the time
    to contribute such value

    Interesting as you seem to be a very "real world" kind of person as opposed to most of us IMers tryin to make a living online.

    Its great to see you've taken an interest in this forum and your words of wisdom are really a breath of fresh air and appreciated
     
  11. CEPI

    CEPI Power Member

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    OK well you can send me a PM or let me know what messenger you are on and I will log on and chat as long as I have time.
     
  12. loclhero

    loclhero Supreme Member

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    Good post. I wonder who the jagoff was that gave it a thumbs down.
     
  13. meathead1234

    meathead1234 Moderator Staff Member Moderator Premium Member

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    I believe the thumbs down was added by the OP to show his feeling towards "players" and "liars". Wouldn't surprise me if it got a few members scared though.
     
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  14. CEPI

    CEPI Power Member

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    Thanks for noticing, I appreciate it. I have been on this forum almost a year, mostly as an observer as I am not that great at Internet Marketing. I think it really is a gift for some people, and others it takes a LONG time to learn. So as I am still learning I want to share some of my "offline" experience in the lounge area and various other areas.

    I would love to make a living online and have several of the senior members on BHW tell you it really is that damn unsexy "CONSISTENCY" that it all boils down to. I want to contribute and maybe bring some hybrid offline psychology into the world of the online marketers.

    Just like every profession I think if you don't diversify sometimes and talk to people outside of your own circle you lose sight of gaining knowledge, and I know that by using some ONLINE ideas here I can benefit my offline business as a consultant. Also hopefully someone here can pick up some things I do in my offline life and turn them into success online by better knowing their end consumers.

    Oh and Re: the thumbs down... yes I did that as my feeling towards liars and players. Sorry about the confusion I dont hate my own post that much, LOL
     
  15. greentitanium

    greentitanium Senior Member

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    we all know these types!
     
  16. s0phia

    s0phia Regular Member

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    nice post, good job man :) :thumb:
     
  17. darkface

    darkface Senior Member

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    Cheers mate you really showed me something there.
     
  18. GreyWolf

    GreyWolf Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    I think there are a lot of people that do those things without any ulterior motives as well. They are just signs to watch for because, if you meet somone that does a lot of them, you need to keep an eye on them. Doesn't mean they aren't genuine, just worth keeping an eye on to be sure you aren't taken advantage of.

    It can be a sign of basic sociopathic behavior. The biggest thing you need to understand about sociopaths, is that they aren't just lying to you, they lie to themselves as well. Everything they are telling you at any particular moment, they believe is the total truth. As long as their conflicting truths don't crash into each other they feel in control, but watch out when they end up caught.

    Sociopaths are often capable of beating lie detector tests. Remember it won't show up as a lie if you believe what you are saying. Since sociopaths lie to themselves, they actually believe what they're saying at any particular moment is the truth.

    That is why a lot of times they will have several friends in the same social group, but rarely will you find them in a group situation. If the things he says to Jim, don't line up with the things he tells to Frank, then he will avoid being in the same room together with Frank and Jim at the same time.

    It isn't just because he doesn't want Jim and Frank to catch him in his lies, it is because he believes everything he says when talking to Jim, and he believes everything he says when talking to Frank, and he emotionally can't deal with the situation when the two conflicting stories are on the table at the same time. All the confidence the feel just goes away, and you never know how they will react. It usually isn't good.

    Most people have to deal with sociopaths everyday. Any business with more than 10 or 20 employees probably have at least one or two. They are usually the instigators in office politics. They will have the ear of several people, doing things like telling an employee how a manager has it in for them, and then telling the manager how the employee has no respect for him. Basic crap like that. You find the same people in your personal social circles, neighborhood groups, etc.

    A good book for anyone to read is "The Sociopath Next Door" by Martha Stout
     
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  19. The Scarlet Pimp

    The Scarlet Pimp Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    this sounds like something that davey d. would write about dating. :D
     
  20. loclhero

    loclhero Supreme Member

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    Point taken..shows how much I use all these little icons and shit.
     
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