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Keyboard/Mouse for those long work hours

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by lurnme, Jul 26, 2009.

  1. lurnme

    lurnme Regular Member

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    Been doing some research and figured most people here put in a lot of hours. Got to be better feedback then the reviews I have been reading.

    Anyone have recommendation for a good ergonomic setup?

    Since my mouse stopped working years ago I've been using mice from the real old PS/2 systems because I have a box of them. You know those are old PCs because the same name as the port. Seems to be wearing my hand though, maybe my fingerprints will get worn as a plus lol.

    Not really looking for a deal but something that works good and saves the wrist and hands a bit.

    Anyone use these?

    MS Natural Ergonomic Desktop 7000

    Wireless Laser Mouse 8000

    This is a weird one I found, I definitely wouldn't use it but interesting layout. Guess it's one way to not be so repetitive.
    http://www.safetype.com/

    Any input appreciated, thanks.
     
  2. whatsup

    whatsup Registered Member

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    Would you buy trousers without trying them on and expect them to fit perfectly?
    Why don't you go to a shop and just try them?
     
  3. Sanitarium

    Sanitarium Regular Member

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    I guess making love to your eyes since you're read
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    Don't think it's how sexy the toys look in this case, seems like it's how you use them..
    maybe this can be helpful.

    10 Tips for Using a Computer Mouse

    The following tips should help you avoid a mouse-related musculoskeletal injury. The same posture principles apply to other input devices (e.g. trackball, touchpad, pen, digitizing puck etc.). Postural variation is a key factor for good ergonomics. Try to regularly vary your posture when you work with a mouse, and in this way you will help to minimize the risk of ergonomic problems. remember, the best ergonomic mice are designed to allow you to vary your posture while working with the mouse.

    1. Mouse Grip - don't throttle your mouse (it's already dead)! Hold the mouse gently to move it over a mousing surface.

    2. Mouse from the Elbow - don't skate or flick the mouse with your wrist. Make controlled mouse movements using your elbow as the pivot point and keep your wrist straight and neutral.

    3. Optimal Mouse position- sit back in your chair, relax your arms then lift your mousing hand up, pivoting at the elbow, until your hand is just above elbow level. Your mouse should be positioned somewhere around this point. Don't use a mouse by stretching to the desk or out to the side of a keyboard. With a flat mouse platform, position this 1-2" above the keyboard and over the numeric keypad if you are right handed - you can easily move it out of the way if you need to access these keys. With a downward sloping mouse platform, position this close to the side of the keyboard so that you can use the mouse in a neutral wrist position. Position adjustable mouse platforms are commercially available (e.g. Humanscale, Proformix, Flexrest, 3M etc.)

    4. Protect your wrist - if you look at the anatomy of the wrist it is curved away from any contact surface (you can easily see this by resting your hand/arm on a flat surface - you'll see light under the wrist and can probably even pass a thin pen under this). The forearm is shaped liked this for the wrist to remain free of surface pressure contact.

    5. Avoid restricting circulation - For may people there are exposed blood vessels near the skin at the wrist, which is where the pulse is often taken. Any pressure in this region will disrupt circulation into the hand and this will increase the risks of injury.

    6. Don't use a Wrist Rest - research has shown that using a wrist rest doubles the pressure inside the carpal tunnel, because the floor of the tunnel is a more flexible ligament that transmits external pressure changes directly into the carpal tunnel (the roof of the tunnel is bone so the pressure doesn't get transmitted on through the hand). Indeed, one test for carpal tunnel syndrome (CTS), know as Tinel's sign, simply involves tapping on the palmar surface of the wrist, which is enough to cause tingling and numbness in someone developing CTS.

    7. Avoid Restricting Arm Movement - with a softly padded wrist rest, especially one that is rounded, or a soft chair arm rest the forearm becomes "locked" into position and this encourages people to make mouse movements by flicking the wrist, which also increases intracarpal pressure.

    8. Keep the Mouse Free Moving - The base of the palm of the hand is the part of the body designed to support the hand when resting on a surface. For keyboard use a broad palm support is best. However, mouse use is different from keyboard use. With a keyboard the best posture is for users to float their hands over the keyboard when typing and then to rest on the palm support in microbreaks between typing bursts. You can use rest-breaking software (e.g. Magnitude ErgoManager, Break reminder etc) to help track and advise on your mouse use. With mousing this doesn't happen. A mouse is used by moving its position over a surface, and resting usually occurs when mouse movements stop but with the mouse still being held in the hand. Mouse movements should be made using the elbow as the pivot point, not the wrist. Anything that impairs free movement of the forearm/hand and mouse will increase injury risks.

    9. Mouse shape - choose a mouse design that fits your hand but is as flat as possible to reduce wrist extension. Don't use a curved mouse. Use a symmetrically shaped mouse. Consider a larger mouse and there are several new interesting products on the market , such as the Whale mouse or the Perfit mouse, that encourage arm rather than wrist movements or that encouirage postural variety and one or two-handed use. Pen-based mice designs also allow a more comfortable grip. Some types of mouse palm support can be attached to the mouse, such as the Mouse Bean.

    10. Load sharing - if you want to load share between your right and left hands, that is using the mouse for some of the time with each hand. For this you need to choose a mouse platform that can easily be configured to the left or/and right, and a symmetrical shaped mouse that can be used by either hand.

    Other input devices - whether you choose a different mouse design, a trackball, a joystick, a pen, a touchpad, a multitouch pad or some other input device, make sure that your position this comfortably, and that your wrist is in a neutral position when using the device.

    Summary recommendations for mouse position:

    If you are using your mouse on a surface then:

    * Best arrangement for a mouse is a platform over the number keypad and just above the keyboard.
    * Good arrangement is a pad on an angled platform to the side of the keyboard.
    * Poor arrangement is a flat surface to the side of the keyboard
    * Worst arrangement is on the desk out to the side of the keyboard.

    http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/cumousetips.html
     
  4. scrupio

    scrupio Junior Member

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    I"ve been using Logitech wireless keyboard mouse sets for all the computers in the office. employees love em and battery life is great. LIke whatsup said best way to find out what is the best for you is go 2 the store and try em out then go online and order it :)
     
  5. lurnme

    lurnme Regular Member

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    I did that that already. Long time usage is a little different then setting your hand on them at the store that's the reason I asked for feedback for long work hours. Didn't really want to hang out at a store for 12 hours and see if it's still comfortable. Besides that the stores don't always carry the best options. I was at Staples and Best Buy today and it didn't cross my mind to buy a gaming mouse but it makes sense now. Also yeah I know what sizes I wear so I don't really need to hang out in a dressing room trying clothes on, I'll leave that for the females.

    Sanitarium - Thanks for the info, I do catch myself all the time and adjust when I do. I'll reread that again tomorrow some good points I hadn't paid much attention to.

    ******** - Thanks for that I'll order one in the morning, looks like it's what I am needing. I never use wireless myself, might be better these days but tried a year ago or so and it's sitting on the shelf.

    As for keyboard I'll prob just grab any of the ergonomic, not as important as the mouse but the keys will help a ton when programming.

    Anyways, thanks for the feedback guys.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2009
  6. GoTop

    GoTop Junior Member

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    i use a Logitech MX518 and G1 which is very cheap :p
     
  7. lurnme

    lurnme Regular Member

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    I just plugged it in along with the MS ergo 4000. Nice pick, thanks for the recommendation. Now I just need to pick up a new chair.
     
  8. deuscypher

    deuscypher Junior Member

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    Using this mouse, the Razer Deathadder. It's a pretty nice mouse, I bought it for it's looks :). It feels so smooth too.

    Yea, ********* is right about those wireless mice, the mouse doesn't have enough "dpi" if that's what it is called. I have a 50 dollar logitech wireless mice/keyboard combo.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  9. cdferr

    cdferr Newbie

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    Hi there. I just browsed this thread, so I don't know if the products I use have been mentioned yet.
    Okay, I'm supposed to use these products, but I'll explain what makes me frustrated with my versions after I describe them.
    I have a setup that is hand mouse free. I use a head mouse, with a dual foot pedal, combined with Dragon Naturally Speaking, due to Thoracic Outlet Syndrome, from using the computer for long hours. However, I'm extremely impatient, and it is still faster to type and use the hand mouse.

    Smartnav Head Mouse: Incredibly effective, however, the model I have picks up too much sunlight which it reads as the mouse. The newer model claims to have better light filtering. I wear a baseball cap that has a light reflective patch on the front, I've thought of just buying some reflective tape to put on my forehead or to put on my ears like earrings, in case I ever get a real job and need to use it, I don't want to have to wear a baseball cap.
    SmartNAV3 AT package from Naturalpoint

    Foot Pedal:
    Pros: Works perfectly like a mouse, you can use your feet, plugs right into USB and works automatically.
    Cons:The clicking action too stiff, I need a larger one, with a smoother click, but someone with big feet might have better luck.
    SmartNav and Savant Elite DualAction Foot Switch
     
  10. The Scarlet Pimp

    The Scarlet Pimp Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    my mouse...

    [​IMG]
     
  11. RiTu

    RiTu Regular Member

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    As a gamer I'd recommend Logitech G5 or Razer DeathAdder like mentioned above. G5 is more expensive and more comfortable than Razer (most of Logitech mouses are).
    The secret is that there is not a best mouse on the world, it depends from your hand. Logitech is a bit bigger than DeathAdder for example...
    You should touch few mouses to choose best for you. But if you will order Logitech G5 you will have 90% probability that you will love it ;)

    You also should get some good mousepad. Steelseries and Razer produces great mousepads. Cheap and good is Steelseries QCK. Slighty better and in similar price is Razer Goliathus Speed. My favourite is Razer Mantis I think.


    As for keyboard, buy some Logitech (expensive but comfortable) or Razer Lycosa (looks pretty cool, but I didn't try it so far).
     
  12. turner

    turner Registered Member

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    logitech all the way...
    got a easycall desktop now
     
  13. Alex Brooks

    Alex Brooks BANNED BANNED

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    I buy jeans all the time without trying them on first.