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JV went bad. Am I to blame?

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by GVDon, Nov 14, 2010.

  1. GVDon

    GVDon BANNED BANNED

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    I've been helping a really good friend make money online for the past 6 months. Last week we decided to JV.

    The JV was to build a massive email list and get traffic to the list. We did that. We generated a lot of emails in a short space of time.

    My friends task was to just build traffic using a method I developed and taught him. He can't code, or anything like that and had no money. He did come with the general idea for the list, but nothing else.

    I put forward a lot of money to aweber, paid for a dedicated server, built the sites (both graphics and coding) and configured the servers. It took me over a week of hard graft to get the plan into motion.

    We didn't discuss how we would monetize the list, and until we did, the list was sitting there. I owned 50% of the list and paid for everything so I'm entitled to use it for myself aswell.

    So, I pushed something to the list, built a new list, and made a lot of money of the new list. The old list is still there.

    My friend found out and hit the roof demanding I owe him 50%. I refused. So now I've got the death threats and all the other crap that comes with it.

    I personally feel that I have done nothing wrong. I used OUR list to build a list to make money. It's not my fault he can't make it up to the office to discuss a way to make money. And even if he did, I'm the one that has got to develop the idea and fund it.

    Would you say he is right to ask for 50%?
     
  2. likeskoolaid

    likeskoolaid Regular Member

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    I think he is entitled to it, or at least you should have made him help you make the money with your list, you shouldn't have went behind his back and made money, which is why he is mad.

    You are supposed to be a team as a joint venture, but you basically used him for labor.
     
  3. GVDon

    GVDon BANNED BANNED

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    I can see how it would seem like that but we was due to use the list to make money, he just never came to the office to sort it out. I feel it's unfair to let me work day and night setting up the actual money making method and have him collect 50%.
     
  4. likeskoolaid

    likeskoolaid Regular Member

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    That is true, you did a lot more work it seems but that doesn't really matter at all in business. Project managers, who just order the workers around usually make more then the workers, usually times ten.

    But he should be paid for the work he did, negotiate with him, let him know you did a lot more work then him and he can get maybe 20% and if he wants more he will have to put in more effort like you have.

    But since he sent you the death threats and stuff, I wouldn't continue to do business with him after you're finished.
     
  5. sidddd

    sidddd Power Member

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    I've experienced this couple of times.

    When me and my friend started out online; he coded a website and I knew nothing about HTML -- but we invested together. With 3 months gone by and no results, we were pretty much pissed. He told me to do something so that we could make money, and I was like... I've PAID you and that's all I know.

    He wanted me to work. I did my best, tried to learn everything I can. Later we separated from the project and I allowed him to use the domain and hosting. That was three years back, and now I make 50 times more than him. :)

    Back to OP, I'd recommend not to be JV with your friend anymore. Pay him whatever you've earned and let him KNOW the expenditure of the server, subscription, etc.

    Play fair and work on your own. You'll definitely make back a lot of money if you have people working UNDER you, and not WITH you.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2010
  6. mudbutt

    mudbutt Jr. Executive VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Why are you to blame? The old list you guys have is still there. Its not like people unsubscribed from the old list to join yours. If he wants to make money, push shit to the lists you guys share. Push his own offer and make himself a newlist that is 100% his. Hes being a diva, tell him to get over it.
     
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  7. IamNRE

    IamNRE Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Tricky one... you did agree to make a JV... you should have made clear from the beginning what role person would have and how the profits would be shared.

    To be honest, I would apologies to him for not taking him by the hand and baby feeding him. Tell him your facked off over the thing but you will give him half the profit, but as far as the JV is concerned its over bcoz of the death threats.

    You still have your skills, you can do it again... no need to take the matter to court and worry about it any more. Put a end to the chapter and use what you have learned for future projects.
     
  8. voidale

    voidale Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    It's a lot harder to manage people than just work, this is why they get paid more.
     
  9. hardybents

    hardybents Regular Member

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    This is a retarded thread. You JV'd with someone who really brought nothing to the table, to build a list to send traffic to? Although you didnt have a clear and defined way to use the list, just build it and then we will let it sit there and do nothing with it, until someone has an idea how to use the list we built it. Its like, lets build a house and start with the roof, then when we build the roof, lets figure out how we jack it up to put the sides on. What you both forgot to do was build the solid foundation and design solid blueprints. Seems to me like you had an idea what to do with the list before you even started, if you didnt then you wouldnt have gone after the targeted addresses? If you JV'd with him, with no plan, no agreement (written) between you two you owe him nothing. However, with the said verbal agreement and your friendship, and the stupid implementation, I think you owe him 50%.
     
  10. lincolnave

    lincolnave Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    You broke thew social contract.

    The appropriate payment for this is the real discussion.

    Maybe let him use the list two or three times.

    Just an Idea.
     
  11. likeskoolaid

    likeskoolaid Regular Member

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    You're basically saying it's harder for a slave owner to make someone carry a stone across a field than it is for the slave to carry it.
     
  12. super11

    super11 Senior Member

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    My personal opinion is that you settle this with your friend by paying him a small share, and then get rid of him from your business life.

    I also reckon never discuss or try to coach IM related stuff to friends. I have learnt it the hard way that they are asshole time wasters. Although I never did any JV, but I did be their IM mentor for free..Not a single person was ready to take action, instead they just kept asking for more...
     
  13. HealeyV3

    HealeyV3 Power Member

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    Yeah, that's EXACTLY what he's saying... idiot.

    You've obviously never been in a management position or else you would have a much different view on "worker/manager" relationship, and the hardships on both ends.
     
  14. Dadelius

    Dadelius Regular Member

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    I had to read this one twice, but it sounds like you didn't push anything to this list you shared with your friend that would generate money you'd have to split, but instead decided to try and get them to your squeeze page so you could then market to them without any guilt.

    Your buddy should have shown up for sure, but I think you sort of side stepped your obligation to him because he was being lazy, and you wanted to do something with this list you built.

    Either help mail for him, so he can benefit the same way you did, or say screw it and maybe lose a friendship.

    You've obviously got the skills to earn, so I say teach him how to mail out and build his own list (which is his) and then split the profit from any mailings you do with your joint list that result in sales.
     
  15. popcrdom29

    popcrdom29 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    I can't add too much to what others have said above except that I agree with most, give him 50%. Although he didn't contribute much to the JV, you were still partners. You should give him what's owed and if you don't feel like you can work with him anymore then part ways and maybe salvage your friendship if it's worth it. Good friends are hard to come by these days.
     
  16. kirkonpolttaja

    kirkonpolttaja Senior Member

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    This is quite common, this happens also with group projects, usually few or someone does everything, others digs their pockets and nose... When project gets finished by these few active doers.. these nose pickers comes and demands that they were also big part of the project so their name should be also in the project.

    Best thing is to buy them out as-soon-as-possible.
     
  17. Dellius

    Dellius Junior Member

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    I say tell him to **** off. Sounds like he is a lazy poor ass with some common sense and nothing more.

    Sure you are entitled to the money. You developed the idea, you monetized it, you should keep the profits.

    I can also make a thread here saying "Hey guys, build a massive email list and market to it for big bucks, yo!". Does this mean I am entitled automatically to receive royalties from everyone who reads my thread and then makes some money ?

    Maybe if his idea was VERY specific and you DID use it to make those profits, maybe then he should be entitled to some amount, although 50% is too high. Maybe 20%, but not 50%, and this is after you cover your expenses.

    Does he have the right to be pissed, though ? Sure he does. When money comes into play everyone gets real touchy.
     
  18. unknownn

    unknownn BANNED BANNED

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    never do a jv with a friend who have not much knowledge.After x amount of time you are always going mad why you should share your hard earned money
     
  19. lucky17

    lucky17 Junior Member

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    I would hate to meet your enemies if this is a friend.
    I suggest you pay him 50% - 50% of server charge and other outgoings.
    Then tell him your friendship is over due to the death threats, learn a lesson from this and move on to your next venture.
     
  20. Erik Creed

    Erik Creed BANNED BANNED Premium Member

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    cross this friend off your friends list...

    There will always be losers who want in on your knowledge.

    I've had many friends offer me a deal where I'd put in my knowledge and work and we would share 50% of the expenses and the profits.
    They never worked out because they expect me to do 100% of the work because they are so RETARDED and don't know crap about online marketing.

    Cross that friend off your list, if he isn't willing to go buy and read at least 5 books on the subject of online marketing then he ain't worth your time.

    I've given away lots of books about success to several friends, and they have yet to read a single page in those books.

    People are lazy choose your friends wisely, and remember:
    YOU DON'T NEED THEM... THEY NEED YOU!