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isn't ALL WH SEO really BH but not as bad?

Discussion in 'White Hat SEO' started by weepingwillow, Jan 4, 2013.

  1. weepingwillow

    weepingwillow Junior Member

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    Hmmm...

    A big debate about this. What is WH SEO and BH SEO. But any kind of "manipulation" is surely B.H.? The only pure WH SEO is surely on page stuff?

    Any ideas on this debate?

    Goog eventually bans everything anyway..WH/BH/Gay hat...so what's the point?
     
  2. ThopHayt

    ThopHayt Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    More or less, the vast bulk of off-site probably is. But you can't say Google can or will be able to ban it. Plus the alternative is doing nothing... even worse.
     
  3. acotut

    acotut Elite Member

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    The point is there's no such thing as white-hat seo as long as you try to manipulate search engines algorithms.This can go anywhere from choosing the "right" titles and <h1>'s to building 100.xxx backlinks.

    The thing is,there are various ways of doing SEO.
    As an example,building 10.000 blog comments with scrapebox ain't the same thing with writing a quality press release and publish it across a network of news websites.
    Also,building 10.000 blog comments ain't the same thing with cloacking.
    Google dosen't ban everything,but it builds algo updates to discover lame websites and easy to spot footprints.

    The idea of SEO is to always improve your techniques to be less risky and more powerfull then your older ones :)
     
  4. weepingwillow

    weepingwillow Junior Member

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    just make sme laugh when SEO companies say "we only practive 100% WH" SEO methods....it can't be so.

    thx
     
  5. IMPSupport

    IMPSupport Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Google thinks that even one manually created backlink for the purposes of increasing rankings is Black Hat. I don't think they use the term Black Hat (do they?). They refer to it as manipulating your rankings. Of course that's what we try to do so yeah, building backlinks, even quality ones, can be considered Black Hat.

    For me personally, I think Black Hat techniques generally falls into two categories, those that scam the user and those that don't. Backlink building, hiding content for the search engines... etc. Stuff that's only designed to manipulate rankings are ok with me. I don't mind gaming Google. :D
     
  6. weepingwillow

    weepingwillow Junior Member

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    No..but you can't do that for offline bizz can you? ^^
     
  7. Techxan

    Techxan Elite Member

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    It amazes me how many fools think that building backlinks is blackhat. It isn't. Google will NEVER penalize your website if you build backlinks by participating in your niche online. You are allowed to promote your business, but not to try to influence the SERPS, you are allowed and expected to promote your business thru linking. Without linking the Internet, and Google, can't exist.

    The idea that you could go to Linkedin, create a profile that includes a link to your site that will hurt your domain ranking is utter fucking bullshit.
     
  8. lakim0

    lakim0 BANNED BANNED

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    When you do SEO, you do in a black way, no one can stay clean.
     
  9. IMPSupport

    IMPSupport Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Hey Techxan. :)

    I'm not a fool, but I understand what you are saying.

    The term they use is "Link Schemes." They are very clear about it in the Google Webmaster Guidelines. support (dot) google (dot) com/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=66356

    When we build links for manipulating our rankings, they consider it to be a link scheme (blackhat). Yes, they rely heavily on sites linking to each other for ranking purposes and that's why they have this rule. They want all linking to be done "naturally." This means one site should link to another site because it's relevant to their own and can provide additional useful information or they recommend it for some other legitimate purpose.
     
  10. steelballs

    steelballs BANNED BANNED

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    G preach the impossible which is all part of their smokescreen strategy, there will never be a level playing field while G are around and that will be for ever...

    So it is obvious that folks will try to game G at the first opportunity....
     
  11. Techxan

    Techxan Elite Member

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    And forever have Google pull the rug from under them and cry like babies. For gods sake, if you are going to blackhat a site you KNOW you are likely building site that can crash and burn at any time.

    Enjoy the money before it burns and roast marshmallows after the fire starts, don't cry about it.
     
  12. security

    security Junior Member

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    I think there is a big difference in WH vs BW.. I believe "WH" is only called so because of BW. If no one intentionally tried to manipulate "exploits" till they know longer worked, SEO would be just that, "SEO".

    Optimizing a site to rank well while following search engine guild lines is just making a site more user / search friendly. If every one only focused on Content, site link structure and site load times you would not so much be "Manipulating" anything. But for ever "Optimizing" sites better and better.

    This would result in back links. Just like when a Video goes viral. As would Content. Till someone came along and wrote some thing better, or did so in a way that was easier navigate, had a lower bounce rate ect ect.. In short, imho true "WH" SEO Could not be a form of manipulation. Its truly Optimizing your site for user experience and better bot search ability.
     
  13. weepingwillow

    weepingwillow Junior Member

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    Exactly. So any kind of B.L ing done to get higher S.E.O. postion is B.H. but if you do it "not for this purpose" it's W.H.?

    Hang on..W.T.F. is B.H SEO again?

    What do these Professional SEO firms do? B.H./W.H. what happens if a clients site gets slapped?
     
  14. weepingwillow

    weepingwillow Junior Member

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    so how do you build W.H. links for say a local plumber? It's not like he's going to write blog posts on other nich relevant blogs or forums is he?

    It's all B*S* really.
     
  15. Johanthaontarott

    Johanthaontarott Newbie

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    Google makes it clear that it disapproves of certain SEO tactics, such as hiding keywords with invisible text, or showing one page to Google's spider and another to actual human visitors.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2013
  16. weepingwillow

    weepingwillow Junior Member

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    Interesting Johan....really interesting. Thx
     
  17. Adam718

    Adam718 Senior Member

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    Any SEO is blackhat SEO. White hat SEO is a myth. The only "Whitehat" method that exists is offline advertising that leads to natural backlinks - Like buying billboard space off of a highway, then people see it and blog/share the links.
     
  18. iknowjack

    iknowjack Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    i agree with this
    i would add on top of this that the only pure white hat off page seo should be link exchange between 2 webmasters, because this is "old as earth"
     
  19. cocococo

    cocococo Senior Member

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    This argument goes on and on, I would stay clear of people who preach they only do whitehat seo, as they actually know jack shit what they talking about.

    Let try again?

    what is white hat seo from google definition:

    ?White hat? search engine optimizers often improve the usability of a site, help create great content, or make sites faster, which is good for both users and search engines. Good search engine optimization can also mean good marketing: thinking about creative ways to make a site more compelling, which can help with search engines as well as social media. The net result of making a great site is often greater awareness of that site on the web, which can translate into more people linking to or visiting a site."

    So really what google is saying, create a site with good content, and more or less people who like the content will link back to your site. example, twitter, facebook, seomoz etc.

    Let me ask ya'll, whats is the chances of a plumber who has a site to get people link back to his site, the percentage is superlow.

    what is blackhat, this straight from google
    The opposite of ?white hat? SEO is something called ?black hat webspam? (we say ?webspam? to distinguish it from email spam). In the pursuit of higher rankings or traffic, a few sites use techniques that don?t benefit users, where the intent is to look for shortcuts or loopholes that would rank pages higher than they deserve to be ranked. We see all sorts of webspam techniques every day, from keyword stuffing to link schemes that attempt to propel sites higher in rankings.

    Now let me tell you something, alot of seo agency will claim they do white hat seo, you know what bullshit, if all seo company practices whitehat seo as google want, I tell you this, they will be out of business.

    It doesn't matter if you do press releases, article marketing, in as much the whole process is to get a link back to a site, your white hat practices is out of the window.

    The question is how black do you want to go? blasting 10k links to a site? or doing it a mediocre way, and water proofing your link profile.
     
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  20. tacopalypse

    tacopalypse Executive VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    it's about transparency.

    the difference is just whether or not google would penalize you if they knew exactly what you were doing.

    blackhat techniques require some level of concealment/obscurity/deception to avoid penalties, whereas whitehat techniques don't.