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IS this why you dont give out your landing page to CPA AM's?

Discussion in 'CPA' started by MiLiTARYiV, Oct 6, 2010.

  1. MiLiTARYiV

    MiLiTARYiV Senior Member

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    When some of you say you keep your websites landing page a secret from a CPA network. Why do you do this. I know some said of stealing traffic etc?

    Do you mean that a AM will copy your landing page 1 for 1 and use the same techniques that u use to get traffic and make money?

    or if they see you doing good on adwords will they steal your keywords 1 for 1 and copy your webpage?

    Is it the AM or the offer that will steal your traffic?
     
  2. BassTrackerBoats

    BassTrackerBoats Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    Yes

    Yes

    Both
     
  3. mkrongel

    mkrongel Registered Member

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    As a network i will say those who hide their referrers, then have issues with quality or fraud from an advertiser will most likely not be given the benefit of the doubt and a through investigation because youre trying to hide stuff to start with, almost makes the pub guilty right away

    I understand the copying stuff, go with a big network where the AM's make enough that they dont need to moonlight as an affiliate too. smaller networks typically are affiliates themselves or let their AM's run offers to make extra money.
     
  4. MiLiTARYiV

    MiLiTARYiV Senior Member

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    mkrongel.

    You head Copeac so thats different. its like a police officer saying all criminals is guilty until proven Innocent.

    I can see your position but just because somebody choose to blank dont mean squat.


    But you are right.. It would be a wise choice to go with big networks but come on.. If a AM sees somebody is making say 30k a month off a offer and the AM can easily copy it and make the 30k with ease. What would stop him or him getting a friend or the AM sharing the secrets to his other favorite affiliates he sees over..

    NOTHING.. AM is not getting paid that big that they would pass up 30k a month easily..

    See i value a good cpa network and wouldnt do anything to jeopardize it


    Its a dirty world
     
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    Last edited: Oct 6, 2010
  5. stressfree

    stressfree Senior Member

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    ^^ Yep ^^ Agree 100%. I wouldn't trust one of them. They go on and on how they are there to help us..BOLLOCKS. They are their to make as much profit from them-selves. Period and if that means screwing oy uin the process they do not give a hoot!
     
  6. weirdo420

    weirdo420 Registered Member

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    THat sucks. Gives me a heads up not to trust the AMs with my LPs. How do you guys hide the referrer? Cloak the link with a url shortening service or anony.to?
     
  7. srb888

    srb888 Elite Member

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    This is a sweeping statement; :) Should not come from the CEO of a great company.

    And also, every big CPA company WAS a small company, before they became what they are now, and are on the way to become much bigger. So where do you draw the line? :)

    There are too many holes to fill, so until everything is level ground, publishers WILL hide what they need to. IMHO.

    :)
     
  8. drdankmendez

    drdankmendez Junior Member

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    Before everyone gets confused with the responses....

    The OP was asking IM'ers about having keywords and LP's stolen by AM (Affiliate Managers)...NOT being stolen by the network itself....

    mkrongel responded with the opinion of a network head...NOT an affiliate manager staff member.

    It's stupid to think that a network itself would like to steal from its affiliates, but with all due respect...there are many affiliate "managers" who have all the means and all the numbers to steal a campaign.

    I am in no way pointing fingers or saying all AM are out to get you....I am just saying I would rather blank everything because I know my leads are good...fraud accusations shouldn't be a problem if your leads are good...if they aren't good why would the AM want to steal it anyhow.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2010
  9. Blare

    Blare Regular Member

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    To rule someone out or judge them just because they hide referrer doesn't mean they are defrauding their leads generated. I like how most CPA companies automatically think you are doing something fraud related if you are making good money. Or they think, Ok this guy is a Black Hatter.

    We can't all "OWN" our own CPA Companies and sit back and let everyone else work for us, Although it would be nice.
     
  10. MiLiTARYiV

    MiLiTARYiV Senior Member

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    Marketer gets banned. Marketer contacts AM why did I get banned.. HUMM show me your keywords and Landing page and you will get paid..HUMM marketer agrees.. then Marketer never makes a penny again off the campaign and does not know why..

    AM in CAYMAN islands sitting back sippin on cocunut rum,, AM low on money.. Rinse and repeat...,,,,
     
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  11. ShiftySituation

    ShiftySituation Power Member

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    If you rely on organic search traffic, that would be the only thing you'd have to worry about them finding and taking. They can almost always look at the onsite SEO for that, but if you are making great money from it I'm sure the kw is going to be hard to rank with. Would they want to waste their time trying?

    If you are using PPC to drive traffic and turn a profit, don't use those keywords in your onsite SEO because to be at the top of the PPC list, pay the most.

    If you are driving social traffic, like a wise man once said, "don't share traffic secrets".

    If you are running someone else's code on your site for an onsite form, then you may want to check out the code to make sure it isn't recording the referrer and if it is, just change the code to make the referrer your LP and be done with it.

    If an AM ask you how you are going to drive traffic or how you already are driving traffic, don't go into details hell, just lie about it. Don't tell them to much info as all they are usually looking for is answers like Social, email, ppc, organic search ect. but if they ask details, tell them you don't share your secrets.

    I'd be more worried about it from an advertisers stand-point.
     
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  12. mkrongel

    mkrongel Registered Member

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    If youre buying traffic your traffic is only working because you invested the time, money and resources to build a campaign, all of which you feel an am can steal, but what they cant steal is your history with that media source. If youre buying media you build up a history with that media source that eventually charges you less. Anyone who bought media knows over time the bids go down.

    If an AM makes little money they may have motivation to take the same risks as you. Also a lot of AM's arent technical people, they are marketers or sales people, they wouldnt know how to code a page if they tried, they can hire someone but a sales person wants to sell and make their commission.

    I have had AM's make $20K in a month in just commission, for several months, affiliates are volitile you make one month and the next you make nothing. And we know those making 30k a month profit are far and few between.

    I am not saying all who hide referrers are fraud but when you hide things it makes you look bad, its like a guy with a pile of coke on his kitchen table saying hes not a drug addict, looks tell a different story.

    Just giving you the POV from the other side.
     
  13. tacopalypse

    tacopalypse Executive VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    actually its more like simply having a safe in your house, and when someone asks you what's inside it and you refuse to tell them, they automatically assume there's a big pile of crack in there. not the most reasonable assumption to make.

    anyway, i just use p202 to cloak all my shit.
     
  14. e-hustler

    e-hustler Registered Member

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    I know one of the new managers at craplead is bringing in 20,000+ a month. He went from making regular wage to 20k. Not sure if he is stealing secrets but i think that is an odd amount of money for a desk job.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2010
  15. flaktrak

    flaktrak Power Member

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    I started out in the CPA as an advertiser with one of the BIG CPA companies, not as an affiliate. I saw what kind of money you guys were making and thought, I should try being an affiliate. Anyway. Having been both sides of the CPA fence, publisher and advertiser, trust me when I say this. Do not let your AM know what you are doing! Even if you are totally WH. When I was buying traffic from the "BIG CPA company", My AM even told me to shave you guys until I had a decent CPA, I shaved hard! sorry to anyone here who might have got burnt, but thats true, I had to make it worth my while and guess what my AM encouraged me.

    I can hear the uproar now!! there will be CPA employees appearing on this thread going OMG that would never happen with us. Trust me they are lying!

    A question for you "mkrongel". This is blackhatworld. We do blackhat here and I assume you know that? So if you don't like blackhat and will shut down someone doing BH methods, why are you trolling threads on BHW? Are you looking for affiliates or looking to see what techniques are out there so you can stamp them out? Just a question.

    Anyway my advice is go with Pofecker's stronger ads or someone else that understands BH can work for everyone.
     
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  16. deathclick

    deathclick Junior Member

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    I can tell you from sorry experience that you must cloak your affiliate landing pages and stuff the referrer (not blank it), if you hope to maintain a good performing affiliate promotion over a long period of time. If you instead play it straight and you have a super honest affiliate network, you might be OK, but in real life everybody is observing and talking about who and what is making money. Of course the AM could steal your methods, but just as often he may rat you out to some other affiliate just talking about what are the best performing offers and what others are doing with them. This information can get--how shall we say--surprisingly detailed. There are a lot more sinners than saints in this business.

    If you cloak with Prosper202, you will be able to have a story to tell the AM and affiliate network without giving away the farm. The affiliate network doesn't need to know your real landing page or your actual referrers. All they will know is that the particular offer performs well. The AMs will get a commission on your sales, so that should be good enough for them. They will communicate that the offer you are doing is a good offer (using their fat commission check as the evidence it works), but that will be all the competing affiliate or at the worst, the competing AM, will be able to know about your method. They may try to compete, and they may even succeed, but at least it won't be handed to them on a silver platter.
     
  17. mkrongel

    mkrongel Registered Member

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    i understand people here do WH also and i am here to keep a happy balance between the two points you made. I am also here to communicate what we will not accept in to our network so people understand what not to do
     
  18. srb888

    srb888 Elite Member

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    Thanks! I seriously think that your company has never 'shaved' irresponsibly. If it is so, then your advice is really welcome! (No, I'm not one of your publishers, but would love to be so. Still, I wouldn't let the AMs know my methods even if they are 100% WH. It takes time to build on that kind of sincere relation where you're sure that both parties will never back-stab each other).
    :)
     
  19. flaktrak

    flaktrak Power Member

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    You know that is not a great answer, but I understand that is all you probably can say on the matter. I am not here to have a go at you personally I am just here to talk about my experiences and as I said. I got experience on both sides of the fence.
     
  20. srb888

    srb888 Elite Member

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    IMO, Obvious you'll never get the true answer but you can read between the lines to get the real picture. :) Come on, you know, I know, and all know, in business and politics talks and walks never go together. No ill-feelings intended to anyone in particular.


    P.S.:
    Advertisers are to blame too, because they add many conditions to their "Free" offers, for example, a candidate invariably has to complete 1000-and-one things to get the "Free" gift... do the Networks ban the advertisers for not declaring the ultimate winners? Or do the candidates get their free gifts even after completing all the conditions?

    The easy way out is to scrape whatever 'one' can and obviously, make money anyway and still call it fair is the name of the game!
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2010