1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Is this how SEO companies are now?

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by ddvv84, May 25, 2012.

  1. ddvv84

    ddvv84 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    178
    Occupation:
    Junior Network Admin P/T, Live Forex Trader
    Location:
    BROOKLYN, New York
    Ok so i am currently part of a start-up and we have an office in NY.
    Now i do all the SEO work for us as well as all the networking, server administration and project management stuff. We are a small group of 5 people.
    So let the story begin.
    My name CTO: Alex
    Our CEO Name: Chris (made up...)

    Last week i was out for 2 days because i had some stuff to take care off. During this time some SEO company called Chris
    and setup a meeting with us for Wednesday of this week. (Chris has been trying hard to limit the stuff I'm working on cause its
    just so much stuff. But hey it's a startup and this is the way it's supposed to be. Gotta work hard to make it big!) He told me on
    Monday about this meeting and i was like "huh what's the point if I'm doing it". He then says that let's see what they have to say
    maybe they can take care of all the FB stuff and twitter stuff. We need FB contests and all that bullshit. I can do it all but damn
    i got enough shit on my plate right now with setting up all the servers, securing them, setting up the routers, contacting vendors
    for patches and workarounds, all while making sure development is in stable condition and is not affected. Also project management
    isn't as easy as it sounds. F'in annoying!
    So on Wednesday the guy came like 45minutes early. WTF aren't you supposed to come 5 minutes MAX earlier and never to be late?
    (We have not told him that i do seo and everything that he does. And i do it whole sale price... Basically what a BST would charge
    is what we pay.)
    So straight off the bat it was obvious this guy LOVED talking. I mean he LOVED it. This was the type of person that could talk
    all day about how great the pen you are writing with is. He was slick, he knew how to talk and he obviously was watching out for
    facial expressions to figure out how to continue with what we are currently talking about. He would always say something positive
    and always agree with you. Making him seem VERY friendly and knowledgable. He spoke like he was a freaking SEO and web design
    GURU. He talked about a few companies that he has ranked easily for, he even showed us some examples. Talked about how he
    has software that he pay's $1000's a month for and has servers that host all these and yada yada yada. He went on for about 30 minutes
    talking about his servers and software. Not 1 time mentioning ANY software name or what they do. At this point I'm sure he can see
    that I'm getting annoyed. So he goes and takes out the list of keywords that he has done "research" of and what would be the BEST
    keywords for us to start off. (Our site has been up for 4 months and we are already PR2 and alexa 90-100k USA, 200-300k World).
    I have a few pages already ranking for some tough keywords and 2 that are already in top 5)
    He first goes into adwords and types in the first keyword. WOW 600k worldwide. He then says look at the competition guys, look
    at that competition, it says HIGH, i can get this done for you within a few months!
    Then goes to show another keyword. WOW(I'm saying wow because of how he talked about it..) 400k worldwide, and the competition
    is HIGH also. He then goes on to show another 3 keywords that are just like these >300k searches and competition is high. Starts
    talking about how the competition is high but he is so great that he can get us in first page for all of them within a few months.
    At this point i stop him. I couldn't take it anymore. He was just a sales guy who knew nothing and it was obvious. So i start. :)
    I ask him first to unclick broad and click exact in adwords keyword tool that he had open for that last keyword. It automatically
    drops from 360k to 600. YES 600! And he can rank this within a few months..... anyways, i ask him to go to another one of the keywords
    and do the same. BAM under 1k searches for exact again. Interesting i say. So i ask him, whats the difference between broad and exact?
    He says that there isn't much difference other than for Google's own internal information and that the keywords do all get searched
    for by 10000's of people a month. I then ask why does Google tell me if competition is high and if this related at all to SEO and my
    placement on Google. He says "without a dought" that the information saying HIGH is because it is HIGH competition in SEO
    and that it is hard to rank for. So i give him a smirk like yea ok fuck off with this shit, and he stops talking and just looked at me. So
    i asked him what software does he use? His EXA CT response "The best SEO software around. Money is not a option when dealing
    with SEO software for my company and i put 1/2 the revenue of the company into SEO software". I say that's all great and all
    but what do you use? I don't care that you have the top of the line EVERYTHING i just want to know what you use and why.
    THIS is when it starts getting interesting.
    He then goes on to say that he would need to find out from his "SEO GUY"... Now WAIT, didn't he say that he was a expert in SEO?
    Didn't he say that he does great web design? Didn't he say he was in this business for YEARS?
    A person who has been doing SEO and web design for years and he doesn't even know what software he is using to rank your site?
    So i asked him why he called himself a expert when he has no idea what he is doing and that all he is doing is freelancing people?
    Now he says that he is just a representative of the company and that he is their because they asked him to show us what they can do.
    So i asked why would they send someone with 0 knowledge about the subject to try and sell me bullshit.
    HIS EXACT RESPONCE: "I'm good at talking and getting people to buy products".
    He then asked me how i knew what to ask him and what his reply's should have been and i told him and showed him a few of my own
    sites that i have up. Also showed him the keywords that i have ranked already for our startup.
    He just smiled. Had nothing else to say. At that point Chris said we are done and that was that.
    We didn't even get into FB or twitter cause it was pointless after this SEO talking bullshit.

    Is this how it is with SEO now? They just send sales people to basically con you into buying services? If i was a small business owner
    or just someone who knows nothing about SEO or stuff like that i would 100% have gotten that service with this guy just because
    of how he talked, and how energetic he was.. He knew NOTHING about anything that he was talking about, BUT he made is sound
    freaking great, and he made it sound like he was Google's worst nightmare.

    I dunno just had to vent.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 6
  2. RonieizBad

    RonieizBad Newbie

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    4
    ok, these words were knowledgeless
     
  3. lethallp

    lethallp Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    25
    Sad to hear that man... I think its all about ETHICS... this guy tried to sell you words and bla bla bla... but at the end you guys have just realised that the guy just tried to sell you BS. This kind of companies exist in different niches. And only the ethical companies will make a difference because they offer you VALUE.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  4. ddvv84

    ddvv84 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    178
    Occupation:
    Junior Network Admin P/T, Live Forex Trader
    Location:
    BROOKLYN, New York
    I wasn't trying to shed any knowledge on you. Hence posting in the Lounge area....

    Yea but we will never know if that company could have provided us value. If they would train there sales people to be more knowledgeable about what they are selling maybe then we would have went into what we needed with FB and twitter. But since it was obvious he was just a talker their was no point in it. BUT if he actually knew what he was talking about and was able to actually explain without having to talk like a sales person, it would have been more interesting and would have maybe even gotten us to take some services from them.
     
  5. lethallp

    lethallp Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    25
    I agree. Actually i believe that a good sales person is the one that can connect with other people as a human. Not just annoying talking trying you to sell at any cost.
     
  6. ShadeDream

    ShadeDream Elite Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2008
    Messages:
    2,209
    Likes Received:
    5,230
    Location:
    He who laughs last, laughs longest.
    First of all, please use paragraphs.

    As soon as I got to this part I knew that this guy had no knowledge of SEO and was just another one of them people who ruin it for the rest of us by talking shit and not selling real results. This was an interesting read and although my experience is very minimal I know that unfortunately this happens all the time with SEO and Web Design. These type of people usually rip others off and provide a shit service or no service at all.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  7. ShadeDream

    ShadeDream Elite Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2008
    Messages:
    2,209
    Likes Received:
    5,230
    Location:
    He who laughs last, laughs longest.
    It's not always ethics, some people truly believe that they have the knowledge to work in a certain niche but in fact they're stupid as f**k.
     
  8. oxonbeef

    oxonbeef BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    7,872
    Any reputable offline marketing company knows generic SEO is the last service a business needs.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  9. gamemerlin

    gamemerlin Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    9
    Well don't know what to say, everyone needs to eat. I think it's normal for a sales guy to do his job, which is talk smooth and convince you to buy his stuff.

    Objectively just because the sales guy doesn't know squat about search doesn't mean his service sucks, it could be his company has great seo engineers.

    Could be he is scammer.

    If you do outsource you may want to create some bs test sits and get a backlink sample to see how these guys are doing their ranking, yeah what out for shitty blasting now, that will get you killed.
     
  10. ddvv84

    ddvv84 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    178
    Occupation:
    Junior Network Admin P/T, Live Forex Trader
    Location:
    BROOKLYN, New York
    That's the thing. This guy even said that he was good at getting people to sign up.
    With people like that, all they need is the most minimal information and they make a whole book out of it. To a lot of old timers who don't really know much, that type of talking and acting will get them to sign up. Since he was so energetic, easy going and wanted to hear what you have to say and know, it kind of puts him into that "friend" place. Once you get the client to like you, the rest is easy!
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  11. albaniax

    albaniax Elite Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    1,586
    Likes Received:
    823
    Location:
    GER - ALB
    Damn I would directly hire this salesmen to work for me :D

    Seeing it from that point, he did a great job. He just work's for the wrong company.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  12. Techxan

    Techxan Elite Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,093
    Likes Received:
    3,585
    Occupation:
    Local SEOist
    Location:
    TEXAS (you have to yell, its the law.)
    I just picked up a friend's SEO account. The service they were using sold them on a $100 per month package last year, and in all seriousness, I cannot see that they have done anything in a that time.

    My friend went with them over me because I wasn't a "company" She called me up last weekk and asked if her comany was as well off as it should be in a years time, so I took a look.

    In a years time this company has done none of the following:

    optimize on page SEO for any pages.
    Not listed them in Google places, or bing or yahoo
    back linking (91 total links in 2 years, from 18 referring domains, not sure how many they built, but I built 10 or so just helping her.)

    They did rank her for 3 keywords related to her niche, combined they get 120 searches a year in MS, but she is #1 for them.

    So in a year she paid 1200 to rank number 1 and 2 in Houston for three keywords that will bring her at most 50 visitors, not customers.

    They even called her up and asked if there was a problem when she dropped the service. First time she has heard from them in a year.

    Typical, I don't know, but it seems common....
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2012
  13. LordCameltoe

    LordCameltoe Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    375
    Likes Received:
    176
    Occupation:
    VP Marketing at CrakRevenue.com
    Home Page:
    Umm, isn't this what 99% of SEO companies do? They sell you smoke and mirrors. They put on a good show telling you how they will rank you for extremely competitive words and you'll get mad traffic. Then they charge you an arm and a leg for basic seo bullshit.
     
  14. kideze

    kideze Elite Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    330
    Location:
    the GRAND valley
    A lot of sales people dont know shit but can sell well so i can see this happening. A lot of the best SEO experts cant socialize well so again i can see how this happens. Nothing to worry about just keep doing the seo yourself for the startup
     
  15. irancrude

    irancrude Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2008
    Messages:
    592
    Likes Received:
    241
    Occupation:
    The web
    Location:
    Paradise Island
    Home Page:
    hahah maybe he was outsourcing SEO to one of us at BHW?? LOL Maybe he is even a member.. OK, just kidding you never know. But hey maybe he was on a WSO mission :D to become an overnight millionaire from a 2.95 usd product??? You know he was/is jobless and just got the latest WSO miracle pill and decided to go and sell it everywhere. Point here is maybe he is making a lot more money than many of us here.

    METHODS!! if we are lacking of something here now, is Real Money Making Methods
     
  16. ibmethatswhoib

    ibmethatswhoib Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,560
    Likes Received:
    1,156
    Occupation:
    Staying Informed
    Location:
    Bay Area, Ca
    Home Page:
    He's doing sales, what do you expect? Sounds like you were butt hurt your bud wanted to use someone else and you took it out on the sales guy.
     
  17. ddvv84

    ddvv84 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    178
    Occupation:
    Junior Network Admin P/T, Live Forex Trader
    Location:
    BROOKLYN, New York
    Not really, like oxonbeef said that last thing he should have been talking with us is about Seo. If they actually did research we have almost no need for seo other then a few pages and that's not even important. We aren't a adwords site we provide actual service to people and have mobile apps and we do biweekly seminars for people that are interested. Our target isn't google searches. I just do a little cause I can.
    If they would have done any good research they would have seen that seo isn't what we need but a good fb and twitter campaign is defiantly needed. That should have been the start of the conversation and not seo.
    Plus, like i said before, IF they would have shown that they could do something to provide us benefit, their is no reason as to why we wouldn't have gotten some kind of services from them. I have enough stuff on my plate, and i am already working 12+ hour work days and weekends for this project. So trust me, if i can get some things of my shoulders i would!
    But i guess the word "Sales" means different things to me and you. Sales to me is talking to a sales guy who has knowledge in this field and knows how to talk to people. Not knows how to talk to people and just bullshit while knowing nothing about the subject.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    Last edited: May 25, 2012
  18. ShadeDream

    ShadeDream Elite Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2008
    Messages:
    2,209
    Likes Received:
    5,230
    Location:
    He who laughs last, laughs longest.
    So what? A good sales guy has to have a basic understanding/knowledge in the field he/she is in. When you go into an electronics store with all sorts of gadgets and domestic appliances you expect the sales guy to know the basics about the products that are being sold in the store, and if you happen to ask someone that doesn't they usually direct you to someone who does.
     
  19. ajithrocksca

    ajithrocksca Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    1,102
    Likes Received:
    590
    Occupation:
    full time internet marketer
    Location:
    Jersey City
    A good sales man.. Probably would have generated a lot of sales to his company. Unfortunately for him, he landed up with a prospective client who knew about SEO. That will not be the case with the other clients. That is how a sales man should be. I would be happy to have such a guy in my team.

    Success comes to those who are capable of convincing others, no matter how good you are with your skills, if one is not good at convincing people then one will not even clear a basic interview.
     
  20. imperial444

    imperial444 Elite Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2011
    Messages:
    1,771
    Likes Received:
    414
    Occupation:
    Full-time IM hero
    Sales is everything in our lives. This guy can sell snow to the Eskimos. I believe he has a bright future. All he need to get some additional knowledge to close deals with even the guys like you.