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Is it worth spinning them myself?

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by thedon23, Jan 7, 2012.

  1. thedon23

    thedon23 Elite Member

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    So there are a few private blog network services I was going to purchase, but had a question first.

    Seems like most providers simply spin at word level (usually 3 variations of each word).

    I generally prefer to spin my articles at sentence level (3 variations of each sentence), and then as many variations of each word that makes sense. As you can probably tell, this usually takes me a while (hour and a half or so).

    I was just thinking..would there be any advantage to spinning my own articles as I usually do and having them use it, as oppose to them using their own word level spun article? I just want to make sure I'm not wasting my time :rolleyes:
     
  2. Tmill

    Tmill Regular Member

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    If the blogs are approving your articles doing it the way that takes 1 second then why bother with the method that takes over an hour. Just my opinion.
     
  3. Expertpeon

    Expertpeon Elite Member

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    And it's a wrong opinion.
     
  4. FuryKyle

    FuryKyle Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    A wrong opinion indeed.
     
  5. Ramsweb

    Ramsweb Senior Member

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    If you spin them manually, they will just read well. Copyscape will still show a lot of duplicates. I recent wrote 5k words to produce one 900 word post. I did three variations for each sentence and also did two variations for every three of four words. It look a lot of time. The spun articles were nice to read but they were all over copyscape when I compared them to one another.

    If the article sites that you submit to give you traffic, I guess it makes sense to manually spin. Otherwise, IMO the time and effort is not really worth it as approval rate is pretty much the same.
     
  6. Expertpeon

    Expertpeon Elite Member

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    I do something like 17-20k word spun articles (10-15 sentence replacements and 4-5 synonyms for most adjectives/nouns)... I have yet to ever have copyscape connect them together... and I use them thousands (tens of thousands) of times with a 100% index rate.

    This takes around 3 hrs now...
    He's buying blogposts, again your opinion is completely incorrect so... you're simply not spinning them correctly to begin with. I'd have to actually look at your articles to pinpoint why, but suffice to say, even 3 sentences + 3-4 synonyms every 3 words on average (easy to do) should yield a very high uniqueness rate even on 200-300 spins out of such an article.

    I've done the low level of spinning you do many times, and I've never encountered anything in copyscape that showed up as "duplicate" out of it.
    The likely culprit is you're not changing the sentences sufficiently from each one and the low synonym spin count.
    Now if you're batch comparing the articles in copyscape, well all I have to say is, yeah copyscape sucks at doing this.
    SEnuke is actually a lot better if you want to check a spintax's uniqueness value. If you're using copyscape to check duplicate CONTENT on the web, that's another story, and you should never find duplicate content from stuff you spin in this manner.

    Of course, you're also assuming google does not use a grammar bot to check backlinks (at least embedded backlinks). There is some evidence google does not do this all the time, as some backlinks are literally in mismash and seem to hold value, but there is definitely some kind of grammar bot in place as far as ranking a page
     
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    Last edited: Jan 7, 2012
  7. FuryKyle

    FuryKyle Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    3 hours for 15 sentence level spinning + words? I take 90 minutes just to do 4 + automated word replacements. and get a 95% unique rate on average. Not sure how well they will do in Copyscape though. I sometimes wonder whether 3 articles + word spinning is better than 3 sentence variations + word spinning.
     
  8. Expertpeon

    Expertpeon Elite Member

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    I type well over 100 words/minute, and no I don't use automated word replacements, but I will use quick replace tools after I select synonyms and manually fill in any other equivalencies that pop into my head.

    It really does take 3-3 1/2 hrs now, used to take more like 5, but yeah, it's much simpler now.
    I often work on these things while on trains/planes, waiting in line, etc... I do it constantly, as content is my only Achilles heel in the SEO game at present.
    I did a breakdown of spinning, permutations and uniqueness in another thread a bit ago.
    Sentences + synonyms is much much more unique than paragraph level spinning (even with sentences on top of that)
    1 article with 9 sentence replacements per sentence is 10^6 more unique (something like that) than an article with 3 paragraphs with 3 sentence replacements in each paragraph.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 7, 2012
  9. FuryKyle

    FuryKyle Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Why bother with manual word replacements? I take 30 seconds to multiply every word I've written to five different combinations and its all good to go. Massive waste of time IMO unless you plan on submitting it to manually-approved article sites or strict Web 2.0's but even that wouldn't be reason enough to do that.

    Lets say there are 30 sentences in a typical article. 30 x 15 = 450. 10 words in a sentence. 450x10 = 4500.
    That's 4500 manual replacements not to mention sentence level spinning

    On a side note, I have no idea whether SEs manage to link these highly spun content together or not. How do you check for that anyway?
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2012
  10. Expertpeon

    Expertpeon Elite Member

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    If it's not readable, grammatically correct, and highly spun, it's not good enough.

    This idea has made me a small fortune, and I don't think it's merely coincidence that it works so well. Manual replacements win, always.
    Manual replacements offer a lot:
    1) higher ranking for random keywords for your web 2.0s
    2) Seemingly much more link juice (I get almost no link juice from poorly auto spun things, I've tested it)
    3) All of your automated links will remain forever, most likely
    4) A MUCH easier time getting them indexed (again, google has some kind of grammar bot in place... things with poor grammar or incomprehensible sentences do not index quickly)
    5) I have never once had a money site sandboxed, in fact, every time I run campaigns on a site I gain rankings, and these ranking increases are permanent. It's literally an exact science, all it takes is elbow grease.
    6) manual replacements make the article more unique, as you can add double word equivalents that shift the entire sentence columnization

    Take it or leave it... you don't have to agree with what I do, I just know what I do works.
    I also suspect, and with some experience to back this up, that "randomly generated every word spinning in 30 seconds" doesn't work too well...

    I've probably spun more content than just about anyone on BHW, it's practically all I do these days. I've tried a loooot of different "theories", it wasn't until I stepped up into this 10-15 sentences + manual level that things started becoming more of an exact science, where I can expect results and they're always achieved.

    I have 4 or so sites where if I run a single campaign, drop 10k web 2.0s, backlink them all, and bookmark them all (on the few sites worth bookmarking on), I will make $500 more each day for the next month-month and a half from the site with no extra work. I've done this with 1-2 layer lower spun/autospun articles, and it doesn't work.
    2 or 3 tiers out, it appears to not matter if it's autospun after the sentence level though, but I only do this kind of diligent spinning for direct links.

    It would be foolish, and sloppy, to spend 2.5 hrs replacing all of the sentences 15 times (which takes the most time by far) and just autospinning it, far better to spend another hour making it readable, excellent, even more unique content.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 7, 2012
  11. jon_xx_x

    jon_xx_x Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    You seem to offer good information, but sometimes half the shit you say just sounds like it's coming straight from your ass, I don't get it.
    20,000 word article in 3.5hrs would take 95words per minute. That's 95 words per minute typing straight for 3.5hrs. That means no breaks, no time to think, nothing. If you're typing 15 variations of each sentence, there is no way you can type a 20,000 word article straight without thinking what you are doing, and without thinking of variations of the article. Or even planning the article for that matter takes time. After writing four variations, I have a hard time coming up with ways to reword it, I can't image 15 variations. The world record for fastest typer maintained 150WPM over 50 minutes. So your "well over 100wpm", must be a world record if you can maintain that over 3.5 hours. Then there is the word spinning on top of just the typing of the article.

    About outsourcing, you say it's not worth it. Well if you're making $10,000+ per day, as you say you do, then your time is very valuable, and there should be no reason for you to find someone who can do it for you. Shit even if you pay someone $1000 to do it, it should be more cost effective than using your time.

    Third, what I don't understand is, if you're making $10,000+ per day, I don't understand why you kept posting in Cash's thread asking all sorts of questions like you were new to SEO. If you are making $10,000+ per day, surely you have your own amazing method that blows his out of the water.

    Anyways, like I said, you seem to offer good information and I read it, but then you post some stuff that makes no sense at all.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 8, 2012
  12. Expertpeon

    Expertpeon Elite Member

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    Lots of assumptions here not going to bother addressing all of them as I am on a tablet.

    1) I specifically said in my post, waiting 3+ days for the content. No, i have not found any outsourcer that can do it, I've wasted countless hours trying (by the way, spending 20 hours' babysitting someone to have them ultimately fail is literally taking money and tossing it in the trash).
    2) I type MAYBE 4000 or so actual word for an article. One guess how the rest get generated
    3) Honestly, it is none of your business how much my sites make. As you notice I am not carrying that information into every thread i choose to participate in. Suffice to say in less than a year i have changed my life completely and am looking at retirement in 6 months. I honestly don't care if that confuses you. I'm still learning though, we all are.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2012
  13. theindiaphile

    theindiaphile Senior Member

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    One word: Ubertoolz. Personally I'm not sure why BHW is not going wild about this insanely good content tool! It's possibilities are endless. Invest and your content issues will be over....
     
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  14. Expertpeon

    Expertpeon Elite Member

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    The only thing i dislike about ubertools thus far is the monthly fee as i won't be using most of the modules
    I really am trying it for their Ubercubez spinner. I'm pretty new to it, but am setting aside more time for unravelling it in a few days
     
  15. jon_xx_x

    jon_xx_x Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    1) OKay, but just makes no sense to me how you can't find anyone to do it, even if it takes you a week of babysitting, it would still be worth it.
    2) Okay, just odd you didn't mention that when the last person asked, and you just replied that you typed well over 100kw/min.
    3) Well, if you mention it in a few threads, I can make it my business. If you don't want it talked about, you shouldn't have mentioned it... a few times. Still didn't answer the question though.

    Whatever. Just wanted to note that you seem smart, but then say some crazy shit as well.
     
  16. mrdonman

    mrdonman Regular Member

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    you are better off spinning them yoursself tthen outsourcing
     
  17. Ronnie9200

    Ronnie9200 Junior Member

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    I would recommend spinning them yourself!
     
  18. Expertpeon

    Expertpeon Elite Member

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    Find someone who can generate 3 articles like the above without it sounding like a 9 year old wrote it everyday. Ive tried.
    No, it is not worth halting all SEO I do to try to find such a person. I'm convinced you cannot buy such skill at any price. Even if you find a guy that can do one a day, you need to find 3 of them... I think I tried at least 20 before giving up. I value my time at around 100 per hour. It would be apeish to divide your daily revenue and say "well i can spend such and such outsourcing then!" What exactly would you do all day? Expand is probably what people say, but unless you have 1 gigabit dedicated lines to your house and 7 computers you want to run at once, there are so many other limits.

    Using your own example, youŕe investing at least $50k to train 1-2 people to do this, with no proof they will stick it out once it gets ¨boring¨. No business does this. They won´t even invest $50k in training managing directors of investment banks.


    I´d rather not blow 100,000 per year overpaying English majors to leak out content... Id rather improve techniques and get faster and faster and outsource what is easy to outsource.
    Likewise, and this is personal experience talking. Outsourcing makes you lazy, it separates you from the heart of SEO (especially with SEO services), and honestly, it basically keeps you from adapting, improving and modifying techniques.

    Yes this is content generation, but even this I modify heavily... and if ubercubez lives up to its promise, this may be a moot point soon, as I run a lot of authority sites, where I generate content only about certain topics.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2012
  19. thedon23

    thedon23 Elite Member

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    Just read through all the posts guys, I appreciate it. Somehow I forgot I started this thread, haha.

    That looks like a good idea. I generally only do 3 sentence variations, but I think I'm going to start doing more. Personally, I think I'd burn out writing and spinning an article that long in one day.

    Also, are you saying that that 17-20k word spun article can be used 10000's of thousands of times? So I mean, if I'm not submitting thousands of articles a day, a nice spun article like that could realistically last me for a few months, right?
     
  20. Lebron2727

    Lebron2727 Junior Member

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    I am also interested in this, I think I understand it correctly... It takes a really long time, but it is worth the pain.

    The other day it took me 5hours to write an article of 1200 words, but I am very happy and proud of the result. I would not mind spending 20 or 30 hours writing an article that can be spun a lot of times before it gets duplicate content is very, very special... I would know what to do with it...

    I would love to learn more about article spinning in the way you described, I have never heard of anyone using nine different sentences for every sentence..