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Is it easy to outrank Wikipedia?

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by jb2008, Oct 22, 2010.

  1. jb2008

    jb2008 Senior Member

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    Hey BHers, I am just doing some KW research and I am often coming across wikipedia pages holding the number 1 spot, nexttag, homedepot and of course amazon. I know amazon entries can be outranked quite easily, but what about wikipedia entries? I know technically like amazon pages they have high pagerank due to the authority, but surely they wouldn't be as hard to outrank as a regular site with, say, PR 5 for their homepage.

    Any experiences or thoughts with this?
     
  2. wannabie

    wannabie Elite Member

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    Wiki, Yahoo and forums on tops spots means you have weak competition so you can walk into it really
     
  3. wannabie

    wannabie Elite Member

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    Plus page rank is a mere penis extension for website owners, nothing more and nothing less - its nothing to do with placement really
     
  4. paincake

    paincake Power Member

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    You can always vandalize wikipedia's pages
    :D
    But seriously, if you really wanted you could rewrite the article and try to remove related keywords and stuff it with words that are not related and maybe it wouldn't get reverted.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2010
  5. darkface

    darkface Senior Member

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    And you can add your own link to the wiki site ;)
     
  6. andrewstolpe

    andrewstolpe Newbie

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    Yeah I think that if you are actively optimizing for a keyword that the top ranking is a Wikipedia entry that you can probably outrank it in a few weeks as there is probably very weak competition and just due to the power of the wikipedia domain Google just places it up top.
     
  7. Micallef

    Micallef Supreme Member

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    I have beaten wikipedia on competitive keywords. It's quite hard, but not too hard.

    They can be beaten.
     
  8. jb2008

    jb2008 Senior Member

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    So on the one hand, some say wikipedia appearance = weak competition, others, well, Micallef, says it's still quite hard. Given that these keywords are long tail and wouldn't strike me as having much competition, which is true? I don't want to start a campaign for for keywords that I'm not conceivably going to rank for in a reasonable amount of time, since I'll have to add up quite a few long tails (20+) for my site to get good traffic.


    dansomers - yes, this leads in to an interesting point. I come across keywords with healthy exact volume, allintitle competition below, say, 3,000, yet there are PR 4, PR 5, PR 3 in the top spots. These are, say, yahoo shopping, home depot, next tag, or Wikipedia. Is this difference in Pagerank something I, as a fledgling PR0 site, should worry about when trying to gain the top spot? My guess is that, with good internal linking in a site a lot of page rank can still be held by the pages deep within the site, i.e. long tail keyword product pages, and hence they rank for it.

    I am just really trying to get to the bottom of exactly what Wikipedia, wikihow, consumersearch, wisegeek etc. (all having high PR even in deep pages) at no. 1/2/3 really means.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2010
  9. Micallef

    Micallef Supreme Member

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    There's no set rule. I would say that if you are serious about the niche, go for it. If you put in your best efforts, you have a good chance of success.

    Sometimes, keywords just won't play into your hands and sometimes they come incredibly easily.

    You can't use the presence of wikipedia as an indicator of weak or strong competition. It's just not reliable.
     
  10. jb2008

    jb2008 Senior Member

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    Good point -- since wiki ranks for such a large number of keywords it's hard to say based on that fact alone, whether it will be hard to rank for that keyword.

    Btw, guys I found that article regarding overthrowing wikipedia. It seems that the internal structure of wiki is the thing he is targeting.
     
  11. readingaddict

    readingaddict Registered Member

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    but you can see what the traffic is like, best seen when wiki is up in the top 3
    http://stats.grok.se/
    you can see if it's worth taking a shot at taking a shot, based on the numbers.
    even then you win some, you lose some.
     
  12. yummylibran1

    yummylibran1 Newbie

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    From the sites you are talking, it appears to be a transactional query.

    If it is true, then i'd say you have a little chance ( esp if you have exact match KID )

    But if Google has classified the query as informational query, then it'd almost be impossible to outrank wikipedia

    i outrank few .Gov sites for certain keywords, but it took me 2 YEARS of QUALITY link building efforts to win those ranks.

    pick your battles carefully....
     
  13. ADHD-Dude

    ADHD-Dude Power Member

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    yes you can with a lot of work