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If you didn't need to work, would you still want to?

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by oatmeal, Aug 20, 2019.

  1. oatmeal

    oatmeal Power Member

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    Let's say you had all you'd ever need and more, financially. You're set for life and then some.
    So you don't need to work your job anymore. Would you still want to?

    Let's make it even harder. If you enjoy your job, but you don't need to do it anymore because
    financially you're set and will have more than you'd ever need, would you still want to work your
    job and put in the 8 hours a day?

    An interesting quote from someone I want you to guess (if you know):

    "Men have to figure out what they have to do. And if they have nothing worth living for, then they stay Peter Pan. And why the hell not? The alternative to valued responsibility is low class pleasure."

    I find this quote nails it on the head. Maybe that's why most men (young and old) play a lot of video games, or just want to do the thing they do (like an addiction) because they basically have no valued responsibility and anything worth living or striving for so they retreat into these low class pleasure habits.
    Meaning is more important than money.
     
  2. Sweetrevenge

    Sweetrevenge Regular Member

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    Sure ! I'll keep doing what I'm doing right now and even more, because I really enjoy it. And, I've never really work a 9 to 5 job. That's why I don't quite understand why you all take you job like a burden.
    If you're job makes you feel like crap, just quit it, learn something which passionnate you and go for it.
    It all depends on your perspective. You may say that because you don't really enjoy what you are doing or you're just overthinking it. And overthinking is never good.
    As someone said : "Do what you love and you'll never work a day in you life".
     
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  3. Creol

    Creol Junior Member

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    Human beings are programmed to create, inspire and evolve. Not sure how can anyone sit on their ass 24/7 without doing anything but watching Netflix.
     
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  4. tubeboost

    tubeboost Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Yep, I would to work. Maybe less than usual.
     
  5. TheVigilante

    TheVigilante Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    My thoughts exactly!
     
  6. alexa_s

    alexa_s Power Member

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    Haha I immediately knew this is a JP quote, just from "why the hell not?'. You can't mistake him :D
     
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  7. miniblicher

    miniblicher Junior Member

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    Yes I would keep on working. But probably do some investing in start-up as work. And help companies grow, and make some more money ;) Doing stuff i like
     
  8. Nandhugp

    Nandhugp Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    We only hate doing repeated jobs. We would try something new that we are interested in.
     
  9. jazzc

    jazzc Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    Meh.

    First of all, being financially set means you are able to be productive in any way you choose. You work for the fun of it. Compare this to working for survival, take a stab at which one is best.

    Boys/Men play a lot of video games because they're fun. People like fun. Fun is cool. What is life worth without fun? Now, it may not be your kind of fan, but surely there are other things that are fun for you. To each, their own.

    Finally and most importantly: There's no such thing as "valued responsibility". This is just something one wakes up one morning and says "what's my top priority? oh, I know, this one". It's subjective, a matter of personal preference. And since it's whatever, it's meaningless.

    "Meaning is more important than money." -> Money is the way to reach your meaning. Otherwise, you're selling yourself short. Suppose your meaning is to find a cure for X. Is your meaning better achievable if you're working 9-5 on Starbucks and studying at night or perhaps is your meaning best achieved if you can equip a lab, get a high level education, hire some awesome colleagues and do research?

    In other words, if you have a meaning in your life, your first priority is to acquire money. Tons of.
     
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  10. oatmeal

    oatmeal Power Member

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    That's actually my point you see, even if you had all the money you'd ever need, that's not drives you and makes you happy or find meaning in your life. You would still want to be productive and do something in your life that is meaningful. Meaning on the average is greater than money. Money just helps you use more tools and avenues to find that meaning you are searching in life. You just have more ways to find your meaning.

    Not if you have cheetos dust all over you snacking, while playing video games half naked in your bedroom. A lot of people do have their own ways of having fun but if you don't have valued responsibility (something meaningful in your life to live for, strive for) then video games or other methods of fun become "low class pleasure" that becomes all you do with your days.

    You just contradicted yourself. That is valued responsibility. Whatever is valuable/meaningful to you in your life and you have a responsibility for it, IS valued responsibility.
    Men have a harder time finding it because they have to search for their roles/meaning (take on valued responsibility) and when they don't, they stay PETER PAN.
     
  11. blackwalker

    blackwalker Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Never been to the US have you?
     
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  12. oatmeal

    oatmeal Power Member

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    BINGO! You win the prize! Congratulations buddy.
     
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  13. DaedNoise

    DaedNoise Newbie

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    I would definitely keep doing the type of work I do, just not for my employer. I would probably look into creating my own avenues to tackle all the projects I'm interested in, but don't currently have the time or means to keep up with.
     
  14. oatmeal

    oatmeal Power Member

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    Hahahaha..... but the beauty of america is that it is both the place where the most lazy are AND the place where some of the best innovations come from and hardest workers exist. Oh...America.....a mixed bag of goodies you never know what you'll get!
     
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  15. Bigdadddy

    Bigdadddy Regular Member

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    I find this was directed at me :anyway::anyway::anyway::D:D:D:D
     
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  16. jazzc

    jazzc Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    Money is the manifestation of previously completed production. There is no difference between production and money other than the mode. Think of it like ice and water - same thing, different mode.

    So, your previous production is the leverage for your future production.

    Isn't it a bit too pretentious to judge how other people have fun? You're coming off from a moral stand point and morality is subjective, so there's no point.

    It's not a contradiction. Whatever is valuable for someone, is valuable for them. That much is true. But it can be anything, including playing games naked with cheetos dust all over the genitals.

    So there is no category of "valued responsibilities" with distinct members in it.

    Think of the category "animals" or "plants". If you thing "elephant", it's clear that it belongs to "animals" and it does not belong to "plants". But there's no such distinction for "valued responsibility". Therefore it is meaningless, other than the triviality of "X is high on my list of priorities".

    Not making a choice is also a choice. Like when you go shopping for a car. You get into the store and you can:

    • buy the car
    • not buy the car
    • not buy any car at all
     
  17. Purush

    Purush Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    No I won't work. If I am sure.
     
  18. oatmeal

    oatmeal Power Member

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    Not talking about what people do for fun. I'm talking about when it becomes a problem because they have nothing better else to do. It's not subjective. If playing
    videos games all day is your thing (without pay), that doesn't mean you can justify it as being "valuable" because it's their subjective choice. No. There are lines
    to be drawn and anyone can tell you that is not productive nor is it healthy, good for you, your family, etc. People need to have valuable production, meaning,
    and responsibilities otherwise they will not care or bother to carry a load.



    I will choose to disagree. Whatever is valuable to someone is valuable to them? Not true. There are clearly cases where something that is valuable to someone is
    just outright wrong. We cannot simply just say, 'well,it's valuable to them so it must be a good thing'. People can do a lot of harmful, hurtful, illegal, dangerous, wreckless,
    things and it may be valuable to them but it doesn't mean it really is valuable responsibility. That would be valuable irresponsibility.


    [/QUOTE]
    Not making a choice is also a choice. Like when you go shopping for a car. You get into the store and you can:

    • buy the car
    • not buy the car
    • not buy any car at all
    [/QUOTE]

    in your scenario agreed, there is always the choice to make no choice. But in my scenario, I'm talking about life. To choose not to choose to do anything is not an acceptable way of living. That has no value, no responsibility, no meaning.... human beings are made to have value, responsibilities, meaning, and work/load....without work or a load to bear, we cannot survive. That's why they say on average people die 5 years after retirement. You gotta still have meaning and something useful and important/valuable to do in your life, to strive for, regardless of money, to stay alive....to keep you going, and ticking each and every morning. Many people today have money but they are not happy with their lives. They are not happy with their jobs. Yes, people need to work to survive, but that's not all we want. We want to get to the place you mentioned earlier, working for fun vs working for survival. The "fun" I suppose is another way of calling it "meaningful". We are searching for meaningful tasks, responsibilities, duties, goals....money is certainly a by product of it and helps us significantly to find it, but I don't think money is the end goal. It's what money can do for us that we really want.

    In other words, if I could get the things I wanted WITHOUT needing money for it, then I wouldn't care about money because that's not what I really want.
     
  19. HoNeYBiRD

    HoNeYBiRD Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Just for the sake of it, no. Very few people are such exceptional at their jobs, that other people can't do their jobs. Are you really make a difference, make the world a better place at your workplace? You have all the money in the world, enjoy it. Life is short. That's where most people fail and work hard until they die, when they didn't have to.

    If you have all the money in the world, you can establish companies amd provide jobs for other people. I think this beats getting stuck in your old day job, just because you like your job and just because the sake of having a job.

    When you have more money than you'll ever need, that opens up new perspectives.

    Not working = / = doing nothing
     
  20. jazzc

    jazzc Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    The point is that the lines are for each person to decide.

    The doesn't mean that you can't have a value judgement against X person. Of course you can, since we all have values. That's why we have them, to make judgements.

    What I've been trying to hammer through in these posts is that what you deem as good/bad/healthy/unhealthy is your own judgement and not some kind of universal thing.



    Valuable and right/wrong are orthogonal.

    For a thief, the loot is valuable and they probably have rationalized it in some way ("he is rich, I am poor"/whatever). On the other hand for the person who lost the stuff to the thief, theft is wrong. In both cases though, the things that changed ownership were valuable regardless. Valuable for the thief, valuable for the original owner.

    The problem is that there's no such universal category of valuable things/actions (unlike "animals/plants"). So while you see X as "valuable", some others don't. Therefore, they are indeed irresponsible for you (and others with whom you share those relevant values with) but that does not extend to a universal sense of responsibility.

    The core difference in our views is the concept of objective/subjective morality. If morality is objective then you're right and I'm wrong.
    One of Peterson's struggles has been to prove objective morality. He hasn't. And he won't be able to because it's obvious it's not. But I get the allure of it and why he dabbles with the subject.


    Acceptable by whom though? It is acceptable by the person who's choosing to do it. It may be not acceptable for many but it will be acceptable for others. For example, I generally do not care about other peoples lifestyle choices.

    These are generalizations.

    This is a very easy thing to experimentally disprove. Offer full retirement to 1000 people at 30 years old, count how many are dead after five years.
    Do we even need to try it? :)

    Yes. My argument is the actual thing that meets these criteria is decided by each person for themselves and not for others to decide.

    Very true. Suppose you're a painter. You've gone to art school, you've sold some paintings and generally, you are capable. Is your next masterpiece going to paint itself or is it your role to figure out how to create it and actually go ahead with your plan to?

    Same thing with people with money. Previous production doesn't automatically make the future you want to achieve happen magically.


    Absolutely. Success is a path you walk, not a destination you reach.

    Well, yes, but that's rare unless you're Aladdin :) So for the most of humanity, money it is.