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I still don't understand why my site tanked on Penguin 1.0 April 24th

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by gorang, Aug 8, 2012.

  1. gorang

    gorang Elite Member

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    It has been a long haul and i've read a lot of opinions on Penguin.

    However, I don't see any major difference between the site in question and other sites.

    I don't understand why penguin singled out my site on the 24th of April Penguin 1.0 and why it hasn't recovered.

    I've completely changed the content of the site into a forum. I've removed forum signature backlinks which might have caused a problem and i'm still at a loss.

    What exactly did the Penguin update do? I still don't clearly understand what happened.

    Lots of speculation and not enough hard evidence :(
     
  2. soundsdelicious

    soundsdelicious Junior Member

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    You may have removed "bad links", but have you continued your usual linkbuilding campaign?

    removing links only benefits those that already have a diverse backlink structure and just need to amend an imbalance.
     
  3. Anddor

    Anddor Newbie

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    If you made your changes, you have to be patient and wait for the penguin refresh. Only then you will find out if your changes took effect or not

    I have 350 of pages affected by penguin, and 250 unaffected. Personally I can't find any difference between them cause they are exactly the same structure and backlink profiles
     
  4. katona44

    katona44 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Recovering after Penguin it`s a pretty hard challenge , please give me more details about what kind of LinkBuilding are you doing now. Otherwise it`s really hard to help. :)
    I recovered some sites, so if you want you can PM me , i can give you some advices.
     
  5. gorang

    gorang Elite Member

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    I'm not really doing any linkbuilding at the moment. The most recent linkbuilding is a few packages from the buy section of BHW. Simple web 2.0 tiered packages.

    Could it be my anchor text percentage which is causing the problem? I don't know what I need to do in all honesty because there is so much misinformation about.

    PMed you with some data.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2012
  6. jass11

    jass11 Elite Member

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    Penguin was not a manual penalty so most likely it would be hit due to using spun content in your backlinks.
     
  7. gorang

    gorang Elite Member

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    But i see still evidence that people are ranking with spun content in their web 2.0s tiers 1s

    I'd say that most of my backlinks came from forums i put my signature in and genuinely used (hundreds of posts) and scrapebox comments from linkloophole
     
  8. RightInTwo

    RightInTwo Power Member

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    How long has it been since you made all of the changes and removed all the bad links? Keep in mind that you are going to have to wait for google go come and recrawl your site (depending on how much your site is being hit by the crawler). Then once that happens you probably are going to have a waiting period. Some people are also reporting that they are coming out of penguin after the Penguin Refreshes.

    Meaning, you might be out of trouble, but you have to wait for the next update for your rankings to return.
     
  9. gorang

    gorang Elite Member

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    I ran my site through backlink analysis over at majestic SEO.

    My backlink anchor text quantity is below. After the last number it goes on for another 200 different anchor text for one backlink. I'm not sure what this works out as in ratios.

    ExtBackLinks(same anchor text)
    675
    602
    601
    574
    567
    564
    559
    485
    445
    333
    288
    233
    184
    178
    117
    102
    83
    82
    60
    47
    44
    40
    38
    33
    33
    32
    32
    31
    30
    23
    17
    16
    14
    14
    13
    12
    12
    11
    9
    9
    200+ single anchortext after this
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2012
  10. gorang

    gorang Elite Member

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    Just found something interesting in the report from majestic.

    About 90% of my backlinks are nofollow. I don't know how reliable this report from majestic is, but most of my keywords in the top 10 are 100% nofollow.

    But the question is, how sure can i be that this is the problem. I suppose we need some penguin hit sites to corroborate.
     
  11. gorang

    gorang Elite Member

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    Also, maybe i'm wrong in assuming the nofollows links caused the penalty. Maybe, in face, Google assumes that the nofollow links don't exist. Which leaves all of the regular PR passing links in really unnatural ratios.
     
  12. niggy

    niggy Junior Member

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    From my experience this is how Penguin works:

    If you got the Webmaster Tools email about unnatural linking patterns, then you probably have a manual penalty on your site. I've heard that these can last anywhere from 6 months to 2 years. No matter what links you remove from your site, or what changes you make to your layout or content, it probably doesn't matter for that site. BUT, you can still leverage your back links from a penalized site by using 301.

    If you went ahead and cleaned up your link profile, you shouldn't be affected by the Penguin algorithm any longer. If you aren't, just 301 your pages over to a new domain. It's important that you do this one by one like this:

    penguindomain.com/page1.htm ---> cleandomain.com/page1.htm
    penguindomain.com/page2.htm ---> cleandomain.com/page2.htm
    penguindomain.com/page3.htm ---> cleandomain.com/page3.htm
    and so on...

    Keep building links to both domains as you 301. It should take a couple of days before you see your rankings start to return, but they will. I have been able to recover some of my rankings by doing this. Not a full recovery (I had literally hundreds of KWs ranking in top 3 on my authority site,) but you'll not have to start from scratch. And the best thing about 301 is that if it doesn't work or for some reason hurts your site, you can just comment them out.

    Try that first.

    ALSO

    The nofollow link thing shouldn't be negatively affecting you in an algorithmic sense. Google doesn't give you any kind of juice at all for having nofollows. If they're really spammy and someone manually reviewed your site then they could have a negative impact. Out of curiosity...why would you build so many nofollow links to your site? They really don't do anything...
     
  13. masterjani

    masterjani Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    You need to diversify the backlinks, If you got any message in webmasters tools then delete the site from webmaster tools and create new pages and post some new content and create backlinks for the domain with many variety of anchor texts to neutralize the backlink profile.
    Once the ranking dance started you can able to recover quickly.
     
  14. futurestic06

    futurestic06 Supreme Member

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    Forum signature links are a problem???? are you crazy? I am all of my five blogs have a huge number of forum back links. but yes all of them are alive and I actively post in those forum. I haven't faced any kind of problem. please tell me detail about other things that you have done with your website.
    thanks
     
  15. gorang

    gorang Elite Member

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    Hey thanks for the reply.

    It is actually not a manual penalty. ive already had a reply for a reconsideration request and Google stated it is an algo penalty not a manual.

    RE: No follows links, you are right that no link juice is passed, BUT do they count in anchor text diversity? If not then it means my diversity is completely different than what my backlink profile shows. So it might not be nofollows links causing the problem, it is simply that the nofollows links have ruined the balanced diversity i thought i already had.

    I think i have so many nofollow because i used scrapebox AA lists from linkloophole. The blog owners must have all nofollowed the links. Also the forum sig links must be nofollowed too. I didn't really use web 2.0s until recently because i'd always had good results with scrapebox, profile links and forum sigs.
     
  16. gorang

    gorang Elite Member

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    I think what i will do is take Ultimate Demon on my VPN and begin creating lots of low quality web 2.0s. But they will all be do follow and i will rebuild my anchor text ratios. I won't be aiming to get high Pr, i won't be trying to target any specific keywords. i'll create like 1,000 web 2.0s consisting of a nice flow of anchor text. My brand name hihest and long tails at the lowest, a nice smooth arc.
     
  17. Scritty

    Scritty Elite Member Premium Member

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    NOFOLLOW do not cause penalty BUT 90% is a VERY high ratio.

    I would try and stay close to 50-50.

    Check your platform diversity. So many nofollow links suggests you have not used enough different platforms for your linking strategies.
    In turn that makes me wonder about anchor text variation (if you used guys here then until recently most only offered between 3 and 5 anchor text variations - these days, and with the several thousand links you have indexed - that is no where near enough)
    Why use spun content on your own big site? This one seems hit and miss - some get away with it - others don't - but it's been a known risk for a long time now (18 months plus?)

    Above all - if someone gives you advice here, make sure they are offering advice regarding sites with a similar profile to yours. Don't follow advice from those guys promoting micro sites or totally different platform types to yours.


    Last thing. You say you have changed to a forum since Penguin.

    How did you handle that as far as canonically handling your existing deep links?
    How did you keep the same internal URL's to ensure the links created before you changed site platform still pointed to VALID pages within your new site?
    If you didn't your bolloxed. If everything is a re-direct - you will take one hell of a penalty in the short term (maybe longer)
    If you didn't internally link - then that's what you need to do.


    Scritty

    [EDIT] Google absolutely count nofollow links. YOu can reank a site in SERPS with 100% nofllow (at least for a while) "WIKI" blasters did it for the first 5 months of this year regularly. the follow attribute seems only relavent to the transferrence of Page Rank authority. I would still mix it up though. 90% is VERY high.
     
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  18. Scritty

    Scritty Elite Member Premium Member

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    Did some analysis.

    Adding 200+ single occurance anchors you have about 7,500 links or thereabouts.
    How many URL's is this spread over?

    Here's the thing.

    Your top 5 anchors (675,602,601,574 and 567) make over 3000 of your links or over 40%
    This is borderline. But the deciding factor is how many internal URL's these links are spread over.

    If you have a 300 page sites with each page getting 25 links at the same overal ratio - that's probably not too bad.
    If the anchors are condensed any tighter than that, say a 100 URL spread with some URL's getting the vast majority of one particular anchor textm then you've gone too far.

    Current best practice is 66% of your anchors are "generic" (click here", "on this site" , "I found this") type of stuff
    So ideally 5000 of your 7500anchors would not be optimised at all.

    Now let's be realistic - NO ONE until Penguin was doing this - so don't kick yourself if this is the case with you. You're just in the same boat everyone else is in.

    Work out for yourself if you have been hitting certain internal URL's with the same text too much. ADD MORE LINKS TO DILUTE |NEGATIVE EFFECT
    ADD CONTENT TO DILUTE ONSITE FACTORS (if we are talking about a reasonably large site)
    Also be interested to know how you kept your pre existing deep links working properly after changing your site platform to a forum. 301's and 303's are having no where near the effect they used to have as Google has worked out pretty quickly how people are trying to avoind the "slap" by forwarding all their content to new domains. (it works short term - but most get caught out)

    Links that result in a huge rash of re-directs or worse still 404 errors will do you no good at all.

    Scritty
     
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  19. gorang

    gorang Elite Member

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    Thanks for the reply Scritty.

    I'd say my anchor text spread is even worse. Probably about 75% of my backlinks go straight to the homepage with targeted anchor text. I have done inner page linkbuilding but nothing compared to the homepage. I didn't use any "find them here" generic stuff either.

    Also I simply forwarded the whole lower domain to xxxxxx.com/forum It has been a few months since I did that so there's no going back now really.

    Scritty, since you're an Ultimate Demon expert(I hope). Do you think spamming web 2.0s with spun content to dilute my anchor text is a good idea?
     
  20. williamk

    williamk BANNED BANNED

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    I think you are approaching the problem wrongly. Did you get your backlink profile? I would advice checking Ahref and Majestic SEO and find what is irregular in them. I would also advice to give more focus on your Anchors and their desnsity. If you are sure that you have good content, then try SEO from various BSW providers. Make sure to build links consistently and you will be fine.