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I got screwed over, need advice

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by theseodude, Jul 14, 2012.

  1. theseodude

    theseodude Regular Member

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    Hi guys
    I did some work for some guy. Normally, I take credit cards and run them before doing any work. But this guy said when work is complete, he wants to pay cash. I thought to myself for a second "cash vs cc....easy decision, I will take the cash"...so I told him he can leave his cc info, but I won't run it and he can pay cash.

    well, I have completed the job for him and called him and asked him to come over and pay me cash. Every day, he has some BS excuse why he cant make it. Every day, he says he will come tomorrow "for sure, for sure, for sure" (life lesson: anybody who says "for sure" 3 times is wasting your time)

    I am pretty sure I will never see my money. Unless...unless I run his cc. I have a signed form, with description of services, amount to be charged. Card is supposed to be his, but who knows.
    So I am thinking of running the card and sending him his work on a burned CD with tracking number.
    But when I discussed this with someone, they said I am not authorized to do it and I can get in trouble for running the card.
    What do you think I should do now?
     
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  2. bertbaby

    bertbaby Elite Member

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    Running his credit card is fraud unless you have a signed agreement and the terms of payment clearly spelled out.
     
  3. rockong

    rockong Power Member

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    For now, I think the only thing you can do is be persistent and tell the thief to give you the cash. Even show up in his place of business...if it's safe lol

    Plus, you can always threaten to take away the work you've done for him..like if you did SEO...say you'll take away the backlinks. Just an example. You prob won't bother taking the time to do it, but you get what I'm saying
     
  4. Duffers5000

    Duffers5000 Elite Member

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    Yeah I think you dont have many options......cash up from man or at least 50/50.......Roughly what services did you provide ?
     
  5. ok888

    ok888 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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  6. worlddating

    worlddating Regular Member Premium Member

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    move on, i have done the same more then once... just move on and dont focus to mutch.
     
  7. B. Friendly

    B. Friendly BANNED BANNED

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    I say run the credit card and mail him the invoice showing the account paid. He will dispute the transaction and you can use the transaction record as well as the invoice as evidence against both the dispute (which you might lose) and the small claims court (which you should win).

    In the fraud situation, he is going to have to explain how you got his credit card information. Did you steal it AND do work for him, both? When the waiter at the restaurant "happens" to get your cc number, that's fraud. When it's the customer that you did work for and he can't prove that he paid you by some other means, then it's assumed it came about as a natural result of the transaction.

    Once the idea of you using his cc is accepted as a legitimate use, then the only question is the amount. Bill him fair and you should be okay. Meaning no punitive charges, etc...

    Guess this all depends on one thing, which is the amount.

    What's the amount owed?
     
  8. Amsterdammer

    Amsterdammer Power Member

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    Just give the guy a call and record a verbal agreement to run the card if he doesn't pay within a day? He will say for sure and that makes it binding. Or I think it should anyways. ~Sorry for the lack of formatting, I hope BHW solves it soon.
     
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  9. csguy

    csguy BANNED BANNED

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    What me to run a blast on his site for ya? Hehe. j/k
     
  10. csguy

    csguy BANNED BANNED

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    I didn't understand where the fraud part comes in when running his credit card. He gave it to you as a down payment, just run it.
     
  11. xxtoni

    xxtoni Junior Member

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    No offese OP or anyone else in the thread but this is one thing that really bothers me with IMers.

    People doing IM seem to have had it too easy, or rather they didn't have to go through all the hoops of what it means to do business offline. You see when you do business offline you have to learn etiquete, you make contacts, learn how to speak with people, how to react in certain situations and so on and then this happens, people don't know how to react.

    I'm not saying that it's the OPs or anyone else's fault but people really need to learn how to deal with clients of all kinds both good and bad before going into business. In IM as soon as someone learns how perform a service and accept a payment they start a service and look for clients despite not knowing how to handle the situation.

    Again, not directed at the OP or anyone else here
     
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  12. Checkered hat

    Checkered hat Junior Member

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    Thanks for rant. And your actual advice is to stop doing any business before learning how to deal with clients? I'm sorry (not really) but it sounds really ass-wards way to Learn anything to me. OP does everything right. He got problematic client, he analyzes possible solutions, gathers second opinions and learns from his mistakes. Believe me, OP is learning etiquette and how to deal with clients right now.

    To do something, learn from it and reinvest your knowledge into new actions is the only right way to learn to me.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 14, 2012
  13. partymarty4870

    partymarty4870 Elite Member

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    I'd just run his card.

    I'm a travel agent and we have to charge people's card without their knowledge all the time for no shows and things like that. We are protected because they ticked our "terms and conditions" when initially supplying the card number, but things never get that far.
    If they do a chargeback we send a copy of their booking request to Visa/MC and that sorts it out. I don't think the cc companies have even asked to see the accepted terms
     
  14. Endire

    Endire Elite Member Premium Member

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    I like what xxtoni and Checkered hat have to say about business. It's where I think so many of us fall within. Some are of the mindset, let experience be your teacher and where, plan - prepare and preparation is going to save you.

    I wish I had done my own homework so many times before, but that experience has helped me. At the same time, I have planned and prepared my heart out and that has probably saved me tons of heartache.

    I'll just sit myself right in the middle of the two of you and say, you are both right.

    Make sure you do your best to know how to run a business, but at the same time understand you won't have it all together and twists and turns will happen.

    Regarding the OP, did you have a contract with this client? What is this document you have to run his CC? Have you done a general search on the address and name of the client to see if they are who they say they are?

    Depending on how much you are talking, you might want to write this one off and get focused on the next client... But now you know what to do next time.

    Hope this helps!

    Shawn
     
  15. deviatus

    deviatus Power Member

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    Run the card, but tell him you will run the card first, give him one last chance to pay.

    The card info was given to you as collateral. That's how business works, if they can't pay cash after the service is completed, you run the card. If your signed form is legit, you're fine.
     
  16. JimmyWong

    JimmyWong Registered Member

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    Ring him, and explain that if he doesn't pay in 7 days you'll be taking payment from his card.

    Word the above in a respectable and business-like manner. But importantly make sure he understands the bottom line, and agrees. Which by the sound of it, he will.

    If he agrees as expected, however then does a chargeback - you know he never had the intention to pay you.

    Move on - fuck him over if possible and/or delete any work you did for him - and more importantly learn from the experience.
     
  17. B. Friendly

    B. Friendly BANNED BANNED

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    Well this is either a completely random thought or you think there is some connection to the thread, but you put so much effort into not offending people that I think you've annoyed people who are like me and wondering what the hell you are talking about.

    No offense, but it feels like your post is just too polite. We'll like you more if you piss somebody off, lol....

    I didn't detect any whiff of a breakdown of social skills on the part of the OP. I think he's clean, well-groomed, uses deodorant and doesn't scratch his nuts in mixed company. I thought maybe he was getting stiffed because the client thought the service was crap, but that doesn't excuse the Buyer from giving an explanation for why payment hasn't been (or maybe going to be) rendered. You hire someone to perform a service, you either pay for that service or explain clearly why you are not. Even if the OP farted and picked his nose both at the same time, his client was still obligated to give him some kind of explanation for why payment wasn't made.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2012
  18. B. Friendly

    B. Friendly BANNED BANNED

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    Plus, as an added bonus afterthought, the OP really sold me on who was right & wrong with this one single line. I met that guy before, the quirky mannerisms that generally indicate serious problems. I do offline sales for a living, and well just now I realized that's xxtoni was getting at, I guess. I've learned to trust my instinct and if the signals are wrong I start protecting myself immediately as in I don't do any work until I have made certain I'm going to get paid. When I look at it that way, xxtoni's post makes sense. He was saying the OP could have/should have known better, and if he had more experience doing offline marketing he might have kept it from turning out like this.

    For sure, that's what he meant, for sure. I sure of it. Certainly. Ab-so-lutely for sure that's what he meant. Exactly. No problem. Gnome sayin' ?
     
  19. twilightofidols

    twilightofidols Power Member

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    How do you think people learn? It's called experience, you have to do it to get it. Why don't you enlighten us with some tips?
     
  20. zebrahat

    zebrahat Elite Member

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    I'd run the card, with a warning first, as advised in the thread, because it's a business matter on which you already have an agreement, and the transaction requires that both of you get what you exchanged value for, within a reasonable time.

    One of the basic inequalities about being in business is that you need contracts and policies that manage your risk to a far greater extent than do the individual clients or consumers you deal with. You do far more transactions with them than they will do with you. Making it clear you will get your payment as per a reasonable procedure will protect your interest, and limit your experiences of getting 'ripped off in slow motion.'