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How to rank for a HUGE Keyword?

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by cdsalmons, Jan 7, 2011.

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  1. cdsalmons

    cdsalmons Registered Member

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    First of all I would like to thank everyone here. There is some great advice. Even the not so good advice still adds contrast and makes you think. Anyway, I know the main focus for many webmasters here is to rank for long tails and low competition keywords. I need some help on the other end of the spectrum. My main keyword is two words, with 10 mil search results. The top three positions are established, have an average of 135,000 back links indexed, and are 6-10 years old.

    My business depends on this, and I cannot go another direction. I will still get some traffic on the long tails, but I need some help with my primary. I know it is going to be hard, and will take more than just a few back links.
    Besides telling me to give up on it, does anyone have any solid advice on how to do this? I have thought about a few things, but this is what I am thinking for right now:
    1. Setup 100 2.0 sites linking back to money site
    2. Use xGen to make mininets for each of the 500 keywords
    3. Point mininets to my 2.0?s to build some juice
    4. Then focus on direct links from high PR, Articles, video, etc.

    This is an overly simplized version of what I am envisioning, I just wanted to share the direction I am thinking of going. I just don?t know about scale. Am I looking at 500 mininets of 50 sites when I should be thinking of 5000? Do I want to play the cloaking game? And a thousand other questions come to mind when thinking of a project this ambitious.

    Thanks to anyone that can help me with this. I have been reading on here for a while. Great advice and methods. I could not find anything to this scale, so I figured I would ask. Thanks again, me
     
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  2. bertbaby

    bertbaby Elite Member

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    Have you also looked at some long-tail keywords in addition to your big game hunting?
     
  3. cdsalmons

    cdsalmons Registered Member

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    Yes, there are thousands of longtails for my business.
     
  4. cdsalmons

    cdsalmons Registered Member

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    Even some of the longtails are going to be hard to rank for
     
  5. craigslistguy

    craigslistguy Regular Member

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    quality and *quantity at this stage*, blp,bld,time,onsite seo..
     
  6. cdsalmons

    cdsalmons Registered Member

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    Could you explain blp, bld?
     
  7. semilar

    semilar Regular Member

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    What about your website?
    Is it online or yet to be built?
    How old is the Domain?
    How old is your Site?
    Is it a exact (or almost)match domain?
    How many pages does your Site have?
    Is it only about the niche or does it have more broad topics?
    How much control do you have over the onpage optimization?

    What about the competition?
    Are the backlinks you mentioned domain backlinks or page backlinks?
    How many of your c's blp have the actual 2 keyword phrase you are aiming at in it?
    Are their domains and the rest of the url, h1, title, text optimized for that kw as well?
    Are these sites quality authority sites, meaning they gained their backlinks through users mostly, not through seo optimization?
    Are these sites only about the topic the keyword phrase is about or are they around broader topics (like article dirs, newspapers etc)?

    Its quite hard to say with the few specs you provided. If most links are like comment spam, it won't be that hard, if these links are blp and quality links, then its gonna be tough.
    Don't forget Article Marketing with i.e. UAW into the mix, and what would help most is when your website is so interesting that users start linking to you by themselves or you get them to link for other reasons - discounts for example.
    Don't forget you have to maintain your web 2.0 properties, post new content regulary so the accounts do not get suspended for inactivity.
     
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  8. semilar

    semilar Regular Member

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    blp: backlinks to page, bld: backlinks to domain.
    you can check with seo quake for firefox, traffic travis (free) market samurai etc
     
  9. cdsalmons

    cdsalmons Registered Member

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    I thought so, but wanted to make sure.
    Thanks for taking the time
     
  10. cdsalmons

    cdsalmons Registered Member

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    Is it online or yet to be built? online
    How old is the Domain? 2 years old
    How old is your Site? 2 years old
    Is it a exact (or almost)match domain? close match
    How many pages does your Site have? 20,000 indexed
    Is it only about the niche or does it have more broad topics? it is a store
    How much control do you have over the onpage optimization? some
     
  11. cdsalmons

    cdsalmons Registered Member

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    I don't know the best way to answer the competition questions
     
  12. mataff

    mataff Junior Member

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    I'm in a similar uphill battle at the moment but with a four word keyword.

    Exact search for that phrase: 8,200,000 results
    Top 8 or 9 are well aged and backlinked.

    Long story short, it a was a test site that sort of took off so I began dedicating resources to push it within the top 10.

    Currently #22 on exact search and #39 on broad search on google.com.

    Factors in my favour: Long tail traffic and the revenue from the long tail.
    Factors against me: domain age is a year (but only indexed for 6 months) and the domain name doesn't contain any keywords in it.

    Using your list above:

    I've been focusing heavily on #1 (2.0 sites) main page/deep linking and am starting to put a lot more focus on #4 (articles). The high ranking links are a given and I'll add as many as I can get my hands on.

    So far the 2.0's have been working really well with heavy backlinking (forum, blogs, etc) directed towards them. I've been using the funds from the long tail traffic to create more 2.0 setups.

    Would love to keep this thread going (with others in a similar situation) so we can bounce ideas off each other and/or pool resources to get the job done.

    Good luck.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 7, 2011
  13. craigslistguy

    craigslistguy Regular Member

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    you could start some nice blasting and see a increase. Blast to those some 20k pages you have.

    You will go up :)

    Get some content in that "store"

    Products will NEVER (i know i shouldnt say that :p) outrank content. You could have a million products...it wouldnt mattter you would get outranked by someone who knows what they are doing...

    and onsite seo...

    Get FF plugin "Html validator" set algorithm for "html tidy" if you have no errors your onsite seo is fine..Dont worry about warnings as every site has them.

    If you have errors it tells you how to fix them.
     
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  14. semilar

    semilar Regular Member

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    actually with onsite seo I meant:
    No duplicate content on the site,
    keyword in url, title, h1, h2, at the beginning of the text,
    the right % of the keyword in the text area, as well as a good interlinking, within the site with the targeted kw as anchor text,
    LSI Keywords,
    KW as bold,
    meta descriptions,
    and a lot of other stuff I am too tired to remember right now ;)
    Error-free HTML provides only some seo benefit.
    And don't forget the page speed - google hates slow sites.
    Also, if you haven't already try to add your site to important link directories such as DMOZ, Yahoo Directory to gain further trust.
    craigslistguy is right, without unique content, and only your product pages, you will have a hard time.

    You can check the competition factors with the software I mentioned.
     
  15. blackmamba456

    blackmamba456 Junior Member

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    If budget is large I'd look at setting up a linkfarm. Basically create a few thousand websites with the sole purpose of them linking to your main site with your keyword.

    seo-host.com seems like a good option for getting plenty of seperate I.Ps all with seperate name servers so that your websites don't look like they are all owned by one entity.

    You'll also need to make sure each of the domains you buy has either private whois or fake whois details.

    I've not actually ever done this, so can't comment on effectiveness... but it's what I'd try if I had the budget.
     
  16. cdsalmons

    cdsalmons Registered Member

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    Thanks for the replies.
    Here is my situation.
    I have the store (online designer) that I can only do basic SEO.
    Then, I run a blog network that is directed to my store.
    I don't know if it would be best to focus on ranking the store, or focus on ranking the WPMU network wich will be much easier, then link post's/products to the store.
    The online designer has widgets that users can post on facebook,
    and they can also create their own stores and offer personalized products.
    I spent over 20K developing the store.
    It is one of, if not the best online designers online.
    But now I am out of money, have no help, and if I don't rank, it is worthless.

    The blog network has about 10K members, and I host about 4200 blogs.
    Many of them are spambots, so I am not sure if that will help or hurt.
    I run everything on subdomains, so if G slaps one, it won't drop the whole network. I figured instead of building everything myself, I would give free SEO blogs, and let other people help me build rank for the network.

    So, in this kind of situation, I'm back to wondering, do I rank the network, then link?
    Or, try to rank the store, and just use the network for links?
     
  17. cdsalmons

    cdsalmons Registered Member

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    Yes, the pages are setup right.
    But they are mainly product pages.
    My competition also host's blogs on their domain which is helping them.
    I don't have a way of pluging wordpress into my site,
    so I setup WPMU on another domain.
     
  18. craigslistguy

    craigslistguy Regular Member

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    i knew what you meant..... was merely pointing out something that could help him start "somewhere" if he doesnt know exactly what he is doing, onsite seo wise ;)
     
  19. semilar

    semilar Regular Member

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    My fault, just forget what I said ;)

    Whats the reason?

    The blog network, I take it, has no topic it is restricted to - the blogs of your members could be about cars for example, or IT too, right? It might be good to use another Domain then.

    And you have your own blog there too thats about your products, right?
    I would focus on getting that one ranked for the big keywords, and your shop for the easy keywords. Of course you have to do good preselling on your blog so the traffic, once it comes will be converted into $$.
    Having your own Blog on the same site as the shop would be better though I think.


    This sounds like you have a pretty feature rich website that users would honor by giving you a backlink or two. Why not try and focus on marketing to people/affiliates setting up personalized products instead of promoting your products? Since they want to make money they might start link building too.

    Great idea. Since google only slaps your subdomains, the remaining blogs will add linkvalue, I guess.

    My oppinion: rank YOUR blog where you do preselling, the blog network helps pushing your blog and your store.
    Rank your store for the easy keywords, your Blog for the hard ones.
    Start getting affiliates as hard as you can, because they will build links to their versions of your store which I take is on the same domain as your store. Maybe thats the most important step, provided the affiliates start heavy link building. Then again, did you make sure that the affiliate shops have their own subdomains(and links to your main shop) to protect your shop from getting sandboxed?

    Did you look into adsense marketing until you rank in the serps?
     
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  20. cdsalmons

    cdsalmons Registered Member

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    I hope this is not giving to much, but I really need help.
    I hope this gives you a better idea of what I am looking at


    #Link Google PRGoogle IndexYahoo LinksYahoo LD Bing IndexAlexa RankAge Delicius1My Site027,800910,4211,360299XXXno matches12Comp 1554,20022551,039101,00012XXXJan 16, 19991193Comp 2430,40017427,8755,80023XXXDec 06, 1998304Comp 3842,600,00011,38039,837,5295,070,0009XXJul 21, 20017173