Discussion in 'Business & Tax Advice' started by richelld, Apr 3, 2011.
Would love a lawyers opinion beside just yours Good digging though
I bless you. A lawyer to The Unincorporated Free-Church of Miseratio Solvo Templum is about as useful as a fish to a bicycle.
EGO beatus vos. A lawyer ut Unincorporated Solvo - Templum of Miser Solvo Templum est super ut utilis ut a piscis piscis ut a bicycle.
Benedicite ecclesia libera unincorporated
Nice try, but once the money is in your "church", it becomes taxable if it benefits you in any way. If you treat or use any of the church's property or income as your own, the IRS will also do so.
Whether you are serious or not, this is making my day. LOL.
So I guess you're gonna live in a church now? All they have to really do is have good reason for suspicion and investigate you for fraud.. then blame you on laundering money for terrorists or something. But I digress, you even translated your statements. lol
I bless you. The church is not a building my child, yet the Body of Christ in all of us.
Benedicam. Ecclesia non est aedificium gnata, tamen corpus Christi omnes.
This is really funny...go ahead and take your chances. My guess is Uncle Sam will come out on top. That is how it generally goes anyway.
I bless you. The heretical catholic church engages in business dealings, tax exempt I might add. And how many others sell books? Operate Universities?
Benedicam. Ecclesia catholica heretica proelium committit negotiatione immunes tributo addo. Quam multis venderet Libri Universities operari?
Benedicite ecclesia libera unincorporated
I like your enthusiasm, but the reality is, if you make money the IRS wants it. If you start moving "real" numbers through there, they will come get you. You can read off all the rules in the IRS book and the constitution you want, none of that stuff means shit. The government breaks all the laws. The IRS itself is unconstitutional. Anyway, write me from jail, your letters will make me laugh.
GE makes 15 billion in worldwide profits and pays ZERO income tax, but heaven forbid the little guy trying to get ahead. Good luck with that....you're going to need it.
I bless you. The IRS cannot land a conviction without the approval of a jury; this is a factor they indeed determine before prosecuting. Thus, it would be thoughtful not to drive around in a lamborghini or indulge excessively materially or keep vast quantities of cash in personal bank accounts (it depletes in value there anyway due to inflation); buried gold bought with cash is a good bet. Pastors and popes are paid by their respective church.
Benedicam. The labores terram non convictam sine assensu iudicum hoc factor determinant illi quidem apud prosequendo. Sic memor esset non in CIRCUAGO indulgere nimium Lamborghini materialiter vel nec crebro cash tanta tot rationibus ripam personale (ut captivi non valentibus ex inflatione usquam) defossa cash auro emerunt bet bonus. Pastores per componatur Papae utriusque ecclesiae.
Try convincing the tax court of that. Your idea isn't new, but it also has a history of being shot down.
The court will actually agree with you that they aren't going to decide what "constitutes a 'religion' within the purview of the first amendment of the Constitution."
The problem is that you can't substitute 'church' for 'religion' in the First Amendment. The courts can determine the definition of church as far as tax exemption is concerned:
It may be fun to try to find a so-called 'legal' way to avoid paying taxes, but being charged with Tax Fraud is a game most people should avoid.
I bless you. Upon reviewing this case, they were able to determine the definition of church because the defendant had signed his 1st amendment protection over through the 501(c)(3, as well as a few others regarding and including the incorporation of an educational institution etc. That was the fallacy. Signing the 501(c)3 (becoming 'incorporated': a State-Owned Church) gives them the right to scrutinize and prosecute.
"A corporation is a creature of the state. It is presumed to be incorporated for the benefit of the public. It receives certain special privileges and franchises and holds them subject to the laws of the state and the limitation of its charter. Its powers are limited by law. It can make no contract not authorized by its charter. Its rights to act as a corporation are only preserved to it so long as it obeys the laws of its creation. There is a reserved right in the legislature to investigate its contracts and ascertain if it has exceeded its powers" (Hale v. Henkel, 201 U.S. 43).
"A corporation derives its existence and all of its powers from the State and, therefore, has only such powers as the State has conferred upon it. Power is used here to mean the legal capacity to execute and fulfill the objects and purposes for which the corporation was created, and the source of this power is the charter and the statute under which the corporation was organized." Len Young Smith and G. Gale Roberson, Smith and Roberson's Business Law, West Publishing Company, 1966, page 796.
The truth is, "incorporated churches" having submitted themselves as a legal entity are subject to total governmental control!
However, Unincorporated churches are immune, they cannot sue, nor be sued by, anyone.
As the IRS states: "Although a church, its integrated auxiliaries, or a convention of churches is not required to file Form 1023 to be exempt from federal income tax or to receive tax deductible contributions, such an organization may find it advantageous to obtain recognition of exemption (Tax Exempt Status for Your Organization, IRS Publication 557).
Actually, it's not the 'church' that gets sued. The individual who is trying to take a tax donation for their contribution to the so-called church is the one who has their deduction rejected and faces possible prosecution for tax evasion or fraud. Corporate status has nothing to do with it.
The IRS has defined what they consider to be a church as far as allowing contributions to be deducted. They made the rules. You can play all the games with them you want, but everyone that I know of who has used your logic has lost the battle.
That may be true, but who wants to spend time in court and dealing with all of the hassles? Much easier spending your time making money. The are many methods of reducing taxes that are IRS approved and require a lot less effort.
Make enough money that you don't care about taxes, or reduce your taxes by donating a large portion to legitimate charities who will do some good in the world.
I bless you. According to (Tax Exempt Status for Your Organization, IRS Publication 557); a church does not have to become a legal entity to become tax-free or receive tax deductible donations (though they recommend becoming one with no valid points to do so (because it is a trap)) ; 100% of failures certainly had registered theirs. If there is no legal entity, there is nothing to prosecute or make decisions about. They just have to accept the deductions because there is nothing to scrutinize; no signed documentation, no proclamation of objectives, no charter, nothing.
Yet it is accepted:
According to IRS Publication 557 and Section 508(c) of the Internal Revenue Code provides that churches are not required to apply for recognition of Section 501(c)(3) status in order to be exempt from federal taxation or to receive tax deductible contributions.
However, IRS holds out the "advantage" of 501(c)(3) corporate status as bait to clergy ignorant of the law in hopes that these men will "bite," thereby placing themselves and their congregations firmly on its jurisdictional hook.
Benedicam. Secundum (for Tax Status viventium Donec tellus, labores Publication DLVII) Ecclesia non iure fieri ens tributum fieri neve-free Donationes deductible tributum (licet misceri suadeo non valet facere demonstrat (quia est laqueus)); 99,9% of subcriptio defectibus certe ille suis. Si non ens legal nihil persequenda aut iudicare de. Et iusto habenda deductiones quia nihil scrutari nulla tortor signed nulla praedicatio proposita carta non nihil.
Et secundum et labores Publication Section DVIII DLVII (c) fruges internum ecclesiae Code statuat non teneris petere recognitionem Section DI (c) (III) ut status immunis a tributis Federal tributum vel susceptura deductible contulerunt.
Sed labores porrigit "commodum"ex DI (c) (III) Corporate status clericos esca iuris ignarus spe hos futuros "morsus, ponens se inde Bernardi jurisdictionalis eius firmiter Hook.
LOL, dude this is an old scam from the 1970's man, and thousands of people got busted doing this. Better dig a little deeper, cuz the whole church thing is a HUGE "RED FLAG" these days cuz so many people try it.
You just need to live like an illegal alien bro... Let me tell you my true story.
My identity was stolen 3 years ago by not one, but hundreds of people. Not my name, just my social security number. So, there are hundreds of illegal aliens out there WORKING under MY social but claiming exempt on their tax forms. So, I get audited every year now for failing to report all my income... the income is not mine, and I have to jump through all kinds of hoops to PROVE I am NOT GUILTY... Yea, you are guilty until you can prove otherwise, even thought thats not how the law is supposed to work.
So, with that in mind, it is my personal mission in life to make sure I HIDE my REAL income because every single year I am at risk of losing it all, and every detail of my life is scrutinized by the IRS (and several different states as well who are constantly trying to sieze my bank accounts)
So, the lesson here is this: It sure is easy to get a job with the wrong social security number and avoid taxes isn't it?
I really have no idea how they are actually doing their banking, but like I said they are not using my name, they are using their own name... Not sure what would happen if they went into the bank with their stolen drivers license with "Juan Valdez" or whatever on it, and a laminated photoshopped SS card if they could get a bank account or not. If not they probably just use one of those check cashing places to cash their checks. I'm sure they change jobs often just avoid being caught.
I will let you read between the lines here, as I would never suggest doing anything illegal
You really should have made your post on April 1
Publication 557 also says:
Do what you want, but people who have tried this same approach in the past have failed. The idea that not filing for Section 501(c)(3) status prevents the IRS from questioning the deduction is contradicted by previous case law. The IRS can and will deny the deduction if the purpose is to avoid taxes, and may pursue a charge of tax fraud depending on the circumstances.
I hope no one seriously considers trying this tactic, but feel free to challenge the IRS and tax court if you'd like. They will be the ones who you need to convince, not me.
This guy cracks me up, all those legal quotes don't me shit. He has obviously never been
in court, nor made any real money. He's like the guy with that knows all the big words but is dumb as shit. Churches, corporations or entity that you make, never fully protects you from the IRS the Government or even private individuals. If you have any money or assets, in the US, your a target.
Separate names with a comma.