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How Much Harder Is It To Go For A Keyword That Is Not Anywhere On That Page?

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by Dan Da Man, Aug 9, 2011.

  1. Dan Da Man

    Dan Da Man Elite Member Premium Member

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    So I have an eccomerce site and it is really hard to make sure that each keyword that I am going after is on that target page. What should I do? Should I try and at least list that keyword once or does it really not matter. I have written articles for those keywords and they always get ranked but I do not want to rank the article obviously because I would rather rank the category page.

    Any suggestions please??
     
  2. Dan Da Man

    Dan Da Man Elite Member Premium Member

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    Any help please?
     
  3. Windmill

    Windmill Supreme Member

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    I've have a tonne of experience ranking sites when the keyword isn't on the page.

    You'll just have to up it. How hard it is depends on the keyword. I'd say its at least twice as hard. You'll up to up the backlinking you do significantly in comparison to a site that is optimised for the keyword, but you can do it :) I've done it lots of times for moderate to low competition keywords.
     
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  4. Dan Da Man

    Dan Da Man Elite Member Premium Member

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    The keywords I am going for are pretty low competition and top ten results are not optimized for those keywords. 100 Exact searches and below. I guess Ill give it a whirl!
     
  5. ueki94

    ueki94 Regular Member

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    100 exact searches is very litle man, that means that you wont get more than 100 visitors per month if you only rank that keyword, lets say your ctr is from 5-15%, that means you will get around 5 to 15 clicks, unless the cpc is high, I would tell you to get another word. That is, of course, if you are ONLY using search engines for traffic, if you are thinking about using facebook and twitter thats a different story. There are some users who make decent profit out of facebook/twitter alone. But I know nothing about that.
     
  6. Dan Da Man

    Dan Da Man Elite Member Premium Member

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    Ya I know 100 searches is almost nothing but when you have 1500 keywords that are around50-100, then those all add up don't you agree?
     
  7. spunk91

    spunk91 Registered Member

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    If nobody is optimizing for those keywords AND there is only 100 searches a month, it shouldn't take many hours to get the #1

    I agree on your last post, Dan Da Man.
     
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  8. lobozebra

    lobozebra Junior Member

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    I would just make sure you have them in the tags or something so Google can recognize that those are the keywords you are going for.
     
  9. mantwo

    mantwo BANNED BANNED

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    Gonna be tricky, best focus on backlink anchor text.
     
  10. Nookie Monster

    Nookie Monster Senior Member

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    Obviously you don't understand the GKWT very well. That 100 searches is spread out amongst ALL domains that have that keyword, not just one.
     
  11. phpbuilt

    phpbuilt Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    For over two years (2005 and 2006), people searching for "miserable failure" would get George Bush's presidential page at the white house. That's because people "Google Bombed" it, massively linked to it with the words "miserable failure", even though those words weren't even on the page.

    That got fixed by Google's algorithm. How did they do it? I'm guessing by adjusting their algorithm to make it so a page cannot rank for words that aren't even on the page. So you will probably find it quite difficult to rank a page for words that aren't on it, just because Google had to deal with diffusing "Google Bombs".
     
  12. Dan Da Man

    Dan Da Man Elite Member Premium Member

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    I remember that but is this just speculation or trial and error you speak? Also, I am sure related words might be a lot easier to rank for even if they are not on the page then something like Bush and miserable failure (even though they do go hand and hand :0 )
     
  13. phpbuilt

    phpbuilt Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    I've never tried to rank a page for words that aren't on it, why would I? Why would anyone? I see no benefit from it, and even if there was -- it would be more beneficial to just put the words on there.

    Only benefit I can see from doing it would be a Google bomb. No money in google bombs, you should focus on where the money is at.
     
  14. siteuser

    siteuser Newbie

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    I sure would like to hear from SEO who can get investors to hit my site, or traders from Canada , traffic boost wanted
     
  15. Windmill

    Windmill Supreme Member

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    Give it a whirl. You could absolutely do that no problems I'm sure. Remember, you'll probably have to put about double the linking power in than you would otherwise. So its quicker to just optimise the site. But if you can't; then offsite is enough.

    Easy. For company websites, they are often style-first and content-later. If they don't have many words onsite but rely on fancy graphics, then you often can't put too many keywords in can you. Sometimes your clients also won't let you change the content on the site. So you have just up the backlinking. Its significantly harder because you're having to convince Google that the site IS relevant. But its doable for sure because I've done it a LOT of times. I don't want to share examples but it is my specialty to rank sites without onsite optimization.

    Luckily, Google have taken this into considering. So you can still rank. I however don't "google bomb". I don't place shitty links around the internet; I place high-quality links. So that is probably important; don't create crap links. You're already on the back foot; Google can't see how your site is relevant so it is having to be convinced by the offsite work. Create high quality links. If your site is a) not immediately relevant to bots and b) has shitty, spammy links linking back to it it'll probably just be seen as a google bomb. But if quality sites with fresh content are linking back, then no one is going to go through all of that effort for a google bomb. It is expensive and fucking time consuming.

    This would be an interesting experiment. One day I might set up a thread and actually follow this experiement through; I've never seen it done before.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2011
  16. Remington

    Remington Regular Member

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    Easy: you probably aren't going to be able to successfully promote a serious product (something you might actually find in a physical store) with a pitch that's worded to include 100 different keyphrases, let alone 1,000. A page long enough to fit all that in will look like some kind of scammy get-rich-quick thing at best. Not only that, in most niches, people don't have the attention span to read all that - especially if they've come in from a Google search for a very specific item. This problem is made worse by the fact that SEO writing is often a chore to read.

    You should, however, want to rank for every term anyone's even remotely likely to put into that search box when they want to buy the kind of thing you're pushing.

    Example of what can happen when trying to cram loads of different keyphrases in:

    A page that tries to get every possible keyword on one webpage will make an awful-looking web site that many people will go to another website to avoid, though, at least in most mainstream niches. You really need to get those extra keys associated with your web page without making your internet site's page look like this paragraph does. Regular consumer goods do better on web sites with pages using a couple of short paragraphs instead of that crappy X-inducing clickbank style. Of course, if you're selling an MLM or other get-rich-quick ebook on your internet web site, you may have no problems fitting an entire thesaurus right onto your world wide web site. If you're selling your own physical goods or some from merchants on a network like CJ, though, you'll need the pitches on your 'net property to get to the point in short order - short enough to NOT add all 1,000 words Market Samurai came up with to the same page.

    Of course, to get all 1,000 variants in there would have to be many, many paragraphs instead of just one!
     
  17. Dan Da Man

    Dan Da Man Elite Member Premium Member

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    Have you never done seo for an eccomerce site? Yeah probably not because there are tons and tons of keywords related to a physical product that you may be selling but just worded differently. For example. Shoe and footwear. Say you have thousands of keywords that are related to a category page, which I do and each keyword makes sense to rank that category page. You clearly did not get what I was asking. I am not trying to google bomp anything. I just want to rank for an example, footwear when I don't have footwear anywhere on that page, but I do have shoe. You see, it wouldn't make sense for me to just list off keyword after keyword if that keyword is just a synonym for the other one.

    Maybe your making pennies off ad sense or whatever your doing, but for an eccomerce site, the games change a little bit
     
  18. phpbuilt

    phpbuilt Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    You mean have I ever taken a cookie-cutter affiliate website offered by some company and tried to make its duplicate content pages rank for everything under the sun? Meanwhile struggling with the fact that all the product descriptions are already on the internet a thousand times over -- and the company's own website ranks #1 for all that duplicate content already?

    You're not asking the right question. The right question is should you try to do that. The answer is no.

    Despite the insults :rolleyes:, here comes a bunch of advice to save you time.

    Make a blog. Make the blog unique content only and on-site optimized. Separate your keyword combos into extremely-related groups. Assign each keyword group to its own blog article. Make the article the best page for that product and keyword combo group available anywhere on the internet. Feature all the products that are covered by that keyword combo on your blog page. Have the blog lead to the cookie-cutter affiliate website when its time to check out.

    And when you really get good at what you're doing, you'll develop a wordpress plugin designed specifically to grab the pricing info and products automatically from the cookie-cutter affiliate store and import them directly into your wordpress blog so your prices, images and out of stock status stay accurate. ;) Until then, you can get away with a simple link to your store.

    I'm not here to whip it out and show you how big it is, but you don't know how much money I make. I can tell from your previous forum posts how much you make though. Don't worry, I won't tell anyone.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2011
  19. ShadeDream

    ShadeDream Elite Member

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    In regards to the "Google bomb" please read the following:

    Code:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_bomb
    Code:
    http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2005/09/googlebombing-failure.html
    I didn't fully read the thread above, but some of the information is inaccurate and I thought I would note this as this is how bullshit spreads around the Internet. For more accurate information, you can take a look at the URL's above.
     
  20. Dan Da Man

    Dan Da Man Elite Member Premium Member

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    How much do you make if I might ask? And ya, I only make a few hundred thousand a year so no biggie there :) Thanks for those tips, I might actually use a few of those. As for the google bomb thing, I think you might be a little wrong as with every niche and every product, your SEO is going to be quite different. As for some of my keywords that I will be targeting, my competition is ranking for those keywords without having it on the page as well.

    Thank you for answering my question!