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How is email submits and CPA spam in general profitable for the advertiser?

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by Sindragosa, Sep 4, 2016.

  1. Sindragosa

    Sindragosa Regular Member

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    Hey, you! Want free Pokemon Go coins? Download this app for 30 seconds and then uninstall it because I know you will. Or submit your email here just for the reason of getting free Pokemon coins and get even more spam! Do it!

    As an advertiser, how is it profitable for them to pay up to $2 for an email submit or $.5 for an app install which obviously is not going to get them an extra customer? The person who completes the CPA offer have no intentions of using the app he is installing. The only thing on his mind is "POKEMON COINS, MUST HAVE THEM!!!".

    Are advertisers "throwing away" money like this in order to get a better ranking in the app stores and therefore indirectly earn more money?
     
  2. bruno0

    bruno0 Junior Member

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    i too wanted to ask that question. Thanks for making my life easy OP :D
    Subscribing to see interesting answers
     
  3. Sindragosa

    Sindragosa Regular Member

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    Yeah, at a first glance it should be a complete waste of money for advertiser to pay spam networks such as OGAds, CPAGrip, CPALead etc etc. But ranking high in the app stores is probably worth a LOT of money.
     
  4. serbyy

    serbyy Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    There are lots of individual and companies that still value fresh email leads as highly valuable and pay CPA companies huge chunk of money to get fresh supplies on a daily business. Normal - mailing maybe one of the few things that hasn't changed since the the 80's. :D
     
  5. HoNeYBiRD

    HoNeYBiRD Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    I'm not really familiar with app installs, but Sindragosa has a good point above. Plus there are apps with in-app advertising and/or in-app purchases. Not every user remove the apps right after install, so i guess it still worth it.

    With email submits, it's pretty easy to answer. The advertisers build an email list with other demographic data, which can be used in their own campaigns or sold to the highest bidder. Shaving on email submits is pretty much industry standard, so actually the advertisers don't pay for every lead they get. But don't forget that the CPA networks also get their share, which varies i guess (Once i worked closely with a private network and asked my AM how much they get, he said 50%.) But there's the shaving, so besides the advertisers nobody knows how much they really pay for a lead. :)
     
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    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
  6. Sindragosa

    Sindragosa Regular Member

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    More answers BHW, come on.
     
  7. Jeffersontalks

    Jeffersontalks Regular Member

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    As an advertiser, in theory I can bait marketers to promote by showing high CPA payout like $2. When marketers send in their conversion, I can easily make a complain to CPA network that these are poor quality leads and refuse this conversion. The second way is to work with CPA network to shave successful leads. Since there is no other way to track and payment is based solely from CPA network report. Another reason is to create massive branding advertisement (as marketers will be splashing ads about your companies all over the place).
     
  8. Sindragosa

    Sindragosa Regular Member

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    Aren't your network fucked when people start split testing among multiple networks and realizes that the EPC they get from your network doesn't match up with the EPC they get from other networks? This would make the legit networks win in the end.
     
  9. Jeffersontalks

    Jeffersontalks Regular Member

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    What happen when all the CPA networks are like that? Remember at the end of the day, advertisers are the one paying. Look through their advertiser agreement contract when you have a chance by pretending to be an advertiser. There is a specific clause that states that advertiser reserves the right to NOT PAY for poor quality leads, chargeback, complaints, etc at ADVERTISER DISCRETION.
     
  10. Sindragosa

    Sindragosa Regular Member

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    This is probably the sad truth. However if ALL networks shave a lot, which I think they do, say 50 %, and there is a network that only shaves 10%. After a certain amount of time when enough people have done split testing they will all go to the 10% shaving network and it will be dominating while the big shaving networks will slowly die.
     
  11. Jeffersontalks

    Jeffersontalks Regular Member

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    Unfortunately the fact is that this is how this industry works. Tell me how are you going to monitor conversion when your payment is depending upon only CPA network reporting. CPA network reporting is final (except when advertiser dispute). There is no free lunch in this world. CPA network will never admit shaving. They would claim that the tracking got loss because of redirecting when you use your own tracker, blah blah.. Remember you are not Facebook, you cannot place the final tracking pixel on the confirmation conversion page which is crucial to determine if a lead is valid. I would love to see this business world whereby everyone is an Angel and transparent. Unfortunately except the big boys aka Facebook,etc (the reason for this is because they are strictly govern by authorities), there are always hanky panky when it comes to advertising.
     
  12. Sindragosa

    Sindragosa Regular Member

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    You seem to know what you are talking about and I agree with everything you say. What stops me from split testing my traffic over multiple CPA networks? If there is a network that doesn't shave then I will see this in terms of higher earnings compared to the other networks, and then we have a winner.
     
  13. NoGameNoLife

    NoGameNoLife Regular Member

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    I kind of understand why email submit lead shaving exists but why advertisers also shave paid PIN submits,that is straight up stealing
    It;s pretty obvious when you have some countries with only a few offers when the new offer is added you receive a lot of leads in the first week from it but then later hundreds of clicks and no leads for month
     
  14. karupoiss

    karupoiss Elite Member

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    Some PIN submits are shaved because people Unsubscribe from the service and the advertiser doesn't get paid what he/she hoped for.
     
  15. LordCameltoe

    LordCameltoe Regular Member

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    data collection is a huge and very lucrative business. Email submits and app installs are a way to profile you so you can be retargetted later. They also re-sell that info to many companies.

    That $2 email submit you made probably made them $10 in the long run.
     
  16. derekxec

    derekxec Registered Member

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    Well....This thread makes me a bit upset since I haven't made a sale yet. I'm sure it's because I'm new at this still, but at least I'm on a black hat forum :)