1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

How Do You Handle Non-Disclosure Agreements in the Internet Marketing Industry?

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by Noah Hawryshko, Feb 22, 2017.

  1. Noah Hawryshko

    Noah Hawryshko Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    871
    Likes Received:
    725
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Biotechnology Engineer at Silph. Co, Saffron
    Location:
    Kanto
    Hi BlackHatWorld,

    In a little while I'm going to be hiring somebody to do some work for me, and I'm looking for some advice on how to format and structure my NDA. Additionally, I'm also wondering how legally binding NDA's with workers from other countries would really be. When a person from Europe signs an NDA with a person from Canada (me), is there really anything I could do to them if they break it?

    Has anybody gone through this process before? I'm going to talk to a lawyer about it soon, but I was wondering if anybody else has already been through this and what their process is for such matters.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Capo Dei Capi

    Capo Dei Capi BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2014
    Messages:
    754
    Likes Received:
    1,732
    You can get a lawyer in that country and file a suit against the person, but you have to calculate if its worth it or not.
     
  3. bartosimpsonio

    bartosimpsonio Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2013
    Messages:
    12,071
    Likes Received:
    10,840
    Occupation:
    WHEREZ MA
    Location:
    BITCOINS AT?
    Home Page:
    Only two ways to do this :
    1. Either work with the person physically or closely, like in the same town.
    2. You only send your crew small tiny pieces of the system so none of them know what they're doing.
    Only big corporations can go around the world suing people. You might even be able to sue in EU and USA etc but you'll be wasting time and money you could be using to actually get the product done.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  4. Noah Hawryshko

    Noah Hawryshko Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    871
    Likes Received:
    725
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Biotechnology Engineer at Silph. Co, Saffron
    Location:
    Kanto
    I don't actually want to sue people, I just want the agreement to be legally binding enough to have them sign it under threat of legal action no matter what country they're in. I want to be "technically able" to go after them. Obviously I'll never give them more than a small piece of the pie anyway, but I want to do my due diligence to stop them from outing that information even if small.
     
  5. bartosimpsonio

    bartosimpsonio Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2013
    Messages:
    12,071
    Likes Received:
    10,840
    Occupation:
    WHEREZ MA
    Location:
    BITCOINS AT?
    Home Page:
    Best tool yet invented: human trust. Interview them first. See what they're up to. Hiring and outsourcing are part of the secret sauce to a successful venture.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  6. Noah Hawryshko

    Noah Hawryshko Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    871
    Likes Received:
    725
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Biotechnology Engineer at Silph. Co, Saffron
    Location:
    Kanto
    There are people that I trust because I see them do selfless actions that are not in their best interest. However, I'll never trust somebody in a relationship founded upon mutual benefit.

    That's not to say I'd never trust anybody. There are people who have helped and mentored me selflessly when I was a complete noob that I'd trust with anything, but I'd do so because the initial benefit was never there for them and because of that I can see that they're genuine people.
     
  7. bartosimpsonio

    bartosimpsonio Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2013
    Messages:
    12,071
    Likes Received:
    10,840
    Occupation:
    WHEREZ MA
    Location:
    BITCOINS AT?
    Home Page:
    What I mean by trust is to learn to identify what people are up to and hire the right people. Hiring is hard. I've been trying to hire some specific pros lately and I gotta say it's tougher than the technical work they'll end up doing anyway. Hiring is hard.
     
  8. propipper

    propipper Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2010
    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    50
    Location:
    Flying Under The Radar
    A NDA is pretty standard. The only part you may have to change are the specifics of the scope of the conversation. I've done several of them.

    As far as upholding in different countries, you're right - get a good attorney and be sure they understand the laws in the other countries. It may be worth it to also get some references for good attorneys in the country of the person you're looking to hire. For example, if you plan on hiring someone in the UK, then get a good UK attorney. That way, they will be more knowledgeable of the laws as it applies to the applicant. You'll have to do this anyway if you plan on taking legal action against someone in another country.

    I understand where you're coming from. People are always good in the beginning but once they see how profitable something is or get an idea off your conversation/interview with them, you never know how they'll take that information and use it.

    Something good to have but make sure you CYA so if anything comes up you can take appropriate action.
     
  9. Zwielicht

    Zwielicht Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2013
    Messages:
    6,629
    Likes Received:
    11,764
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Private Investigator
    Location:
    Riverside, California
    Home Page:
    The last NDA I signed was from a medium-sized company in Australia.

    Looking at it right now, it was formatted like this:

    (Service)

    Services For: (List Service Again)

    Between: (Company name and address)

    And: (Person you're hiring) and its shareholders, directors, officers, employees, affiliates, etc
    1.1 Go over termination clause.

    1. Independent consulting services

    2. Independent contractor

    3. Confidentiality

    4.Non-Disclosure.

    5. Injunctive Relief

    6. Enforceability

    7. Dispute Resolution

    8. Agreement Summary

    Your name:
    Your address:

    Your signature _________________

    Other party's name:

    Other party's name:

    Other party's signature_______________________
     
  10. mointernet

    mointernet Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2008
    Messages:
    325
    Likes Received:
    153
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  11. Jared255

    Jared255 Jr. Executive VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    2,004
    Likes Received:
    1,902
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Waste of time. Hire someone who can't copy what you are doing
     
  12. MisterF

    MisterF Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    6,309
    Likes Received:
    4,819
    Occupation:
    Conference Organiser, Business Advisor.,
    Location:
    JADIP
    Home Page:
    Hire someone local to you, then you can drive there and break their arms & legs if they screw you over.
     
  13. Noah Hawryshko

    Noah Hawryshko Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    871
    Likes Received:
    725
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Biotechnology Engineer at Silph. Co, Saffron
    Location:
    Kanto
    Well I'd never give a VA enough information to be able to copy what I'm doing, but I still want to do my due diligence to protect the little information that I'm giving out under threat of legal action.

    That makes sense, doesn't it?
     
  14. elavmunretea

    elavmunretea BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    May 14, 2016
    Messages:
    1,579
    Likes Received:
    2,091
    Yes. Yes it does.

    When a business hires a consultant, the whole idea is that they can do what the business is doing, and more on top.

    I would have the complete opposite view to Jared: Only hire someone if you can't do it yourself.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  15. Conor

    Conor Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Messages:
    3,544
    Likes Received:
    5,862
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    South Africa
    Home Page:
    Whoever drafted that is probably going to sue you now for pasting it here.
     
  16. Jared255

    Jared255 Jr. Executive VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    2,004
    Likes Received:
    1,902
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    It really depends. If you are hiring a consultant who can do everything you can do and more, then sure get a NDA and have the funds to enforce it because that's dangerous. Frankly I don't have any experience with that. But if you're a small fish outsourcing IM stuff NDAs are a waste of time IMO because 1) you're probably hiring people overseas 2) you don't have the funds to enforce it and 3) your data or idea probably isn't that valuable in general. It's difficult to do everything yourself if you want to get rid of manual work.

    It does make sense in theory but it is a waste of time if you can't enforce it. What if someone stole your idea and you threatened legal action and they said "OK, come get me"? You're SOL. You can avoid this risk initially by splitting up your projects and hiring people who do not have the ability to replicate your processes - e.g. hire someone who only writes as your writer (off Craigslist), someone who only codes as your programmer (off Upwork), your own VA (off Fiverr or Upwork) instead of a VA agency that might have knowledge of IM operations and could put 2 and 2 together, etc. Smart hiring is your safeguard, not the feel-good NDA that you can't enforce.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  17. Noah Hawryshko

    Noah Hawryshko Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    871
    Likes Received:
    725
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Biotechnology Engineer at Silph. Co, Saffron
    Location:
    Kanto
    Damn, you know your stuff. Yeah I understand now.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  18. Ste Fishkin

    Ste Fishkin Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,047
    Likes Received:
    10,422
    Ignore the NDA.

    Hire multiple people who handle specific parts of the project but not the entire thing.

    If you're worried about them getting your method don't give them the method, just give them very specific tasks and communicate with them 1 on 1 and don't let them meet/talk/chat
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1