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How Do You Deal With High Paying Clients Who Expect High Rankings White Hat Way?

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by RichardUK, Aug 28, 2013.

  1. RichardUK

    RichardUK Registered Member

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    Hi guys, I'm concerned at the moment, my client keeps complaining, you know they expect number one spot and the moment you drop onto page 2 or they aren't getting their money back from the little bit of Google traffic you provide its like you aren't providing them with a good service

    The one main client I have provides me with basically my means of getting by, but I've had his site at number 3 for a major financial keyword but we've slipped down to page 2 recently. I didn't use any methods which were obviously spammy at the start but now I've decided to use a few blackhat tactics.

    He's basing his knowledge of Google traffic on the old site he had when back in the days his previous SEO used excessive anchor text linking and it worked and he got around 100 visitors a day, but then he got an unnatural links penalty last year.

    I'm trying to explain to him that we can still get some traffic from Google and other Adwords alternatives but he seems to be reluctant to pay out anymore on these services...

    Also he paid out on an emailing service when I was originally using an SMTP server and getting the same results...and the email service went and messed it up with the wrong outbound links in the email anyway....

    What you think I should do guys?
     
  2. theseodude

    theseodude Regular Member

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    "I have run done an analysis and our competitors are spending more money on seo. If you want your rankings back, I can certainly help, but you're also gonna have to spend more money"
    If he starts bitching, give him this example: if you are running in a race and your competitor starts running faster, what do you do to catch up to him? you run faster than him!
     
  3. nanavlad

    nanavlad Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Good advice.

    Tell him whitehat costs more money than blackhat, and if his competitors ar using them
    A cheap and ffctive way is buy some high PR DA PA sites with plenty of links and do a 301
     
  4. RichardUK

    RichardUK Registered Member

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    I've tried telling him that I create links with scrutiny and I've recently added some Sape links(So I'm not totally clean) which haven't got the site slapped but haven't bumped me back on page 1 yet either, I'm hoping that if I wait for everything to settle I'll come back stronger. You all must have seen the tweaks in Google starting the 21st.

    You can't get fast and effective results from Whitehat, Whitehat only works if you've already got an aged site with a wide links profile, I only started link building on this site last November and I haven't got too many anchored links, maybe a few spammy press releases..and some blog post paid links.

    I've tried telling him SEO should be part of a wider internet marketing plan, also I know his leads will drop down to a lot less if I wasn't there for consultancy... Ive done email blasts, designs and other things to optimize the site also.
     
  5. SEORasta

    SEORasta Senior Member

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    These type of clients are a nightmare. They sound good on month 1 but month 2 they are now the expert and want #1 right away. You can introduce PPC to hold him off but you HAVE to advise that you have no control over Google. You can do everything right but his competitors may be out spending him as well. Mention this and see where it goes. You have no control over Google AND his competitors are out spending him.
     
  6. Laubster

    Laubster Senior Member Premium Member

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    Um using SAPE links on a client is extremely dangerous. You may want to stop that. Second, there's no such thing as whitehat SEO. Anything you do to get higher rankings is frowned upon by G00gle.

    Anyways, start using his budget to buy domains with high PR, PA and DA, but DON'T 301 them. Instead build a private network of sites and throw up 3-4 highly relevant articles to his niche. This will make your new domains highly relevant (Google likes relevance). Then put a link to the moneysite on the homepage. Boom, now you have super relevant and powerful links going to his site. I can also recommend some high quality places to rent links, but yeah don't use SAPE, super dangerous. Good way to get fired.
     
  7. Getwhatchuwant

    Getwhatchuwant Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Richard, this type of client can be a real pain so until you start showing SERP results what you may want to do is show him what is going on. Of course (my opinion only) to point Sape or blog network links directly to the money site is a risk I would not take on a client paying me good money.

    Instead focus your time in Press releases (good way to dilute the anchor text btw), guest posting and building hand made web 2.0's.

    Then you can use some of your purchased links to go to some of those properties to juice them up a bit without putting your main site into harms way.

    Most on BHW are using a earn and burn strategy and simply walking away from sites that tank, you should not follow their same strategy for a client that will be PISSED to learn that his branded site is now going in the toilet.
     
  8. Duffers5000

    Duffers5000 Elite Member

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    How high a price is the high paying client paying ? I have seen a high paying bit of seo when I was approached for a link on one of my sites. I did a link exchange(I Know old school) but this team wrote journalistic style posts on high profile sites.It was proper PR agency work.

    If I was you I would be concentrating on getting more clients on board. Having one big client makes you too stressed to make the sort of decisions that come easily when you have lots of clients.
     
  9. lmxftw

    lmxftw BANNED BANNED

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    seo is advertisement ...

    a billboard is costly, not targeted (you can't decide that your billboard will only be seen by someone who's interested in your product) and is only seen by a handful of people and it still costs a ton of money ...

    white hat seo is like you're one of the Jehova's witnesses / a Mormon missionary ... you go door to door asking people if they've heard the good news ... if they like it maybe they'll "buy it" and afterwards try to get more people to "buy it"

    black hat seo is going in an apartment building and leaving a thai food menu on each door knob ... YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THERE ARE ANY PEOPLE in the apartment or if they eat thai food or if they eat any food or anything ... there's another reason it's called 'black hat' ... you're doing it in the dark
     
  10. Nut-Nights

    Nut-Nights Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    most of the clients don't know exact difference between whitehat and blackhat . They simple knows that "Blackhat is danger for website" But they don't know which methods come under Blackhat method. Simply use blackhat (safely don't harm their website) to rank their keyword and tell them its whitehat
     
  11. Goal Line Technology

    Goal Line Technology Senior Member

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    Tell them that you are NOT Harry Potter first of all.

    Then go on to show them a quantitative and qualitative report on what you have done,
    what could have been done differently, and recommendations for the future.

    However, be clear about highlighting the risk of BH SEO methods, and that WH will cost more,
    with perhaps less results. Tell them a little gray hat is one recommended method of approach.

    In any case, YOU need to appear as the SEO expert, and make it clear to them that IT IS NOT AN EXACT SCIENCE,
    and the SEO changes daily, and that you are best placed to observe and take corrective action,
    rather than them going to someone else.

    Also, tell them that the financial niche is EXTEREMLY COMPETITIVE, and your represent good ROI for them at this time.

    Also, you need to examine YOUR profit margin, because even though they are "high paying clients"
    the cost per hour for your work must be commensurate with the fee.
    They just want maximum bang for their buck, tell them you understand that principle,
    and if you feel that they are being unreasonable with their expectations, show them the door, honestly.

    You have to look after NUMBER 1 here. That is you !

    Good Luck
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2013
  12. BadyBoySEO

    BadyBoySEO Regular Member

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    Wouldn't use SAPE links on a client site tbh, unless you have some sort of professional insurance. I would use this as an opportunity to upsell and say if you want this done the white hat way, and absolutely grind to make sure you get the page back on the first page of the SERPS. Personally I would pay some virtual assistants to go do a ton of outreach work and hire a team of good article writers to build a whole host of links from a range of different sites.

    I disagree when you say that whitehat doesn't work for new sites, it does but its just a lot more effort.
     
  13. seocrab

    seocrab Senior Member

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    Hey there, I totally feel your pain - had a client like this myself not long ago. You mention white and blackhat methods - are you explaining all of this to your client? I used to spend a lot of time explaining exactly what tactics we used to each client, but at the end of the day all they cared about was what position there site was and how many visitors they got.

    You're not promising page 1 to them, you're providing a recurring subscription service of X amount of seo hours per month (presumably)...so that's what they get. If they want to outrank competitors, they may need to pay more. Try not to get into petty debates about email servers or how much you think they should spend - let the customer work out their own budget and needs, and you'll be there to do the seo.

    Try and offer a selection of different seo services, e.g. a social campaign, feeder site campaign, ppc campaign etc and price them up per month. Explain what your client is currently getting and give them the option to add new packages, or switch them around. If their payments are important to you, you'll need to work hard to make them happy. Don't forget to also keep working on building a larger client base, so that you're not totally reliant on one large customer who may decide to try a different service one day.

    One final thought: you can offer them a discount on a long-term project and tie them into a contract. Good luck from a fellow UK seo-er. ;)
     
  14. moose942

    moose942 Power Member

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    Focus more on providing your clients results in terms of their business instead of rankings. If you're getting them more customers that is all that matters.
     
  15. Untouchable

    Untouchable Supreme Member

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    One of my clients tried to be smart with me. I told them they were gonna be hit with a penalty and they didnt listen.
    "We survived the last one, we will survive this as well."
    Guess what happened?
    I say drop the client and get a better one if he fusses around too much.