Higher standard of approval for social media panels

Discussion in 'Forum Suggestions & Feedback' started by macdonjo3, Feb 22, 2018.

  1. macdonjo3

    macdonjo3 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    There is an abundance of social media panels on the forum that all claim to do the same thing. I've tested a slew of them and the majority of them don't work as specified in the thread. After waiting 3 days for what's supposed to be an "instant" panel, I find my orders won't be fulfilled. So I then contact support which takes another 2-3 days to get the services cancelled, putting my balance back to it's original amount. Basically members end up depositing money into an account that has few to no working services that can be used with their account balance.

    When a service claims to provide "50+ services" in their panel, do you really think they can maintain all those? Jack of all trades, master of none.
     
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  2. TheAlmightyDada

    TheAlmightyDada Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    I think the problem with the approval system, is that eveyone will give the Moderators/Admin a superb show.

    What if the admin set up a Newbie account that would Secret Shopper style audit BST's? If they fell short, that would warrant removal of the BST as though it had failed approval?
     
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  3. life2ifeless

    life2ifeless Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    I think the mystery shopper idea has been floating around for awhile, but It’s probably beyond the scope of the mods due to the limited manpower and resources.
     
  4. Apricot

    Apricot Administrator Staff Member

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    In the reviews I've carried out with smm panels, the vast majority of the ones I've approved actually have completed instantly. Some say that the work is manually done but they've all been completed within a day or two. On one or two occasions, I've reviewed a panel where the work didn't get carried out as expected. When looking into it, I've been told that I "ordered wrongly". One of these I approved because the seller realised I'd accidentally missed a character when I pasted the review link in the panel. He took the initiative to correct the mistake and put the order through. The other wasn't approved because the information I submitted was correct but the seller kept giving me different reasons for why it wasn't working.

    The ones that don't complete within the specified time frame, or don't give me (at least) the full amount that was purchased, or if any drops take them below the purchased amount in a short timespan are not approved.

    For each complaint we get saying the approval process isn't rigorous enough, we'll get 5 from sellers complaining that we're expecting too much or we're not being reasonable. Sometimes, we'll get both types of complaints from the same person.


    The approval system is designed to make sure that the seller can provide the top level of package they're offering, to the standards that they promise. Beyond that, it's the seller's responsibility to provide the service to the same level. If they don't - well, that's why the shitlist forum is there and that's why we tell buyers NEVER to use a non-refundable/ chargeable method of payment.

    Carrying out mystery shopper tests and micro-managing individual sellers to make sure they're providing a good service each and every time would be impossible, even if we increased staffing levels tenfold. This is why it's super important to submit Shitlist Threads about sellers who don't fulfil orders properly. Too many people on the forum will post on a sales thread saying "this is rubbish, I can't believe it was approved, why aren't the mods doing anything about it" and then don't bother actually telling us. We're not omnipresent or omniscient so if we're not directly informed, chances are we won't see it and we can't deal with it.

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. macdonjo3

    macdonjo3 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    I think the services work properly during moderator review, and also for the sales that follow over the following few months. Eventually the sellers either expand beyond what they can handle or they get lazy and comfortable and stop caring about what is live and when as they're making solid $ from the thread regardless if service is good or bad. I don't think the mystery shopper idea is feasible but I do think limiting service providers to do 1 thing really damn well would make it better for members. Either their service is working or it's not. Right now you'll have panels with 20 services working and 30 services not working. Then a week later, it will scramble the working and not working services. I think it's safe to say that sellers are biting off more than they can chew, and it's at the cost of the buyers who are just looking for 1 service that will work each time they go to use it.
     
  6. TheAlmightyDada

    TheAlmightyDada Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Let's say I bought a service from the Marketplace and wasn't happy as it fell well short of the sales spiel but we worked it out and I was refunded. In that case, I wouldn't want to create a shitlist about that individual - I may leave a negative review, but I wouldn't report the service to a Mod as I wouldn't feel scammed - just let down.

    Are you saying that BHW would prefer me to both make a shitlist, and report the member, even though I received a refund?
     
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    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
  7. macdonjo3

    macdonjo3 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    I think the initial approval process is rigorous enough. That's not the issue.

    The issue is when the service is old, I think it should be up for another review. The marketplace threads cost yearly fees if I'm not mistaken, so I think approvals should be done yearly too.

    If you were to do another review, I would not tell the seller that it is up for review. I would simply purchase and put the $10 in. Sellers do not regularly check the names on PayPal - I mean they barely check their own private messages every 2 days. Test the service as a buyer would. PM the seller and explain you just tested the service and get your refund. Once complete, make your review on the thread again, time stamp it accordingly. Close or keep it open based on the review.
     
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  8. djw1606

    djw1606 Power Member

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    I have previously suggested some kind of complaints system, similar to the "Shit-List" but no so aggressive. You'll notice with a lot of Content writing BST's that members make excuses for writers saying things like "what do you expect for $10". What you expect is exactly what is advertised in the sales thread. It doesn't matter if they charge a dollar or a hundred dollars. They should be held up to the standards that they themselves have set.

    Obviously, in the first instance, any dissatisfaction with a service should be reported to the vendor to give them the opportunity to rectify the problem. But after that, I think if we had a complaints system where after 5 or 10 reported complaints it triggers a mod to review 1 or 2 examples from the complaints, it would at least encourage vendors to maintain a level of quality. Of course, this creates extra work for the mods who already have a demanding workload running such a big forum. Unfortunately, there is no easy answer to this issue. But I do think that if anyone offering a service can not maintain the standards they themselves have set, then they should not be allowed to continue offering their BST
     
  9. TheAlmightyDada

    TheAlmightyDada Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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  10. RushingWind

    RushingWind Elite Member

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    That's how things are and no amount of 'formal reviews' is going to change that. This is what happens when you've got Tom, his son and his son's friend selling a service. The market gets saturated and you get a shit load of guys with absolutely no business sense running a, business.

    A few years back, we did have a thread rating system which worked as a poor man's gauge.

    If you want to have more reliable sellers on the marketplace, you have to focus on the seller instead of the service being offered. Don't just take a review of their service as a qualifier. Try to audit the seller and see if they're a fit for the marketplace. Look at previous iTraders from interactions in the WTB, HAF, anything really. This would work wonders in a small community and would fail miserably in a forum like BHW.

    So you can't do background checks on an account or have some kind of restriction as to 'who' is allowed to offer their services? Great, now let's move on to the two other options you have. And please, Jr.VIP or a marketplace seller account isn't a qualifier either.

    1. Mystery audits.
    2. Enforce the use of iTrader and take down the accounts receiving a ton of negative feedback. Pick your own numbers.

    I'm not unaware of how taxing this can be. But that's how you run a business. Fast forward a few years into the future and you're going to have an awful lot of dissatisfied users distrusting the marketplace. And that can end in two ways :

    1. Sellers stop selling shit services since they realize that the users aren't biting anymore. This will probably cause them to clean up their act and the marketplace returns to the way it was a few years back. Good news! Or...
    2. Sellers are going to continue to flood the marketplace hoping to bag at least 1 out of a 1000 users and the marketplace takes a nosedive into the dirt and takes the forum along with it.

    I've seen a few sites go down this path and they rarely ever take route #1. In no way am I trying to belittle the staff. I feel awkwardly funny having to put this disclaimer up but I do believe you want BHW to not just be alive, but also adapting to the market 5 years from now.
     
  11. BassTrackerBoats

    BassTrackerBoats Super Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    If something like that was actually in play it could not be advertised as something we do.

    Maybe it is in play.

    Maybe not.

    Some of us spend money on BSTs and the seller would never know it was a Mod as the buyer has no recognized affiliation with any of the staff.

    Just sayin'.
     
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  12. TheAlmightyDada

    TheAlmightyDada Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Hmmm, the plot thickens.....
     
  13. davids355

    davids355 Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    I think the job of mods and admins is hard enough already and setting up a covert review system or annual reviews would add to that workload massively.

    As a community we should all be taking up a bit of the work here -

    1. If you see suspicious activity in a thread or what you perceive to be fake accounts posting reviews, report it.

    2. If you get shit service from a seller, post a review on their thread accordingly. If you feel like they have not delivered what was advertised then ask for a refund. If you end up in a position where the service hasn’t been delivered AND you can’t get your money back then you can open a shitlist.
     
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  14. macdonjo3

    macdonjo3 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    This is a matter for the office team, not the volunteer team. Why not charge more money for threads to hire more staff? $250/yr/thread. BHW pays $25k/yr for staff like that. So each staff member would need to review 100 threads a year. I'm sure they could do 100 threads a month. I don't think lack of human resources is an issue for something like this.

    It's not really about the money, it's about the time. The amount of time that's wasted trying to get a $25 refund, after trying a slew of garbage panels, is irritating. So most of us just leave the money in and call it a loss. Where do you draw the line?

    I often post reviews but it gets buried very very quickly. I mean look, JustAnotherPanel is doing 180,000 orders per day still, and the complaints are flying in by the dozens. As long as their thread is allowed to be bumped, they will continue to take people's money and make a small fortune from it.

    I made this thread because I am not sure if making a dozen shit lists is really the proper step to take. I don't want to create piles of work for volunteer moderators.
     
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  15. Sephrata

    Sephrata Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    I think the issue with this is that reviews get drowned out by people asking for review copies, posting their orders or just asking general questions.

    Reviews are important and useful. They should have their own section within sales threads or be highlighted so they stand out.

    I also think reviews should have some kind of star rating and if there is a negative review, the owner of the sales thread should have the opportunity to respond. This would allow other people to get a fair view on how the customer service of a sales thread owner, whilst giving them the opportunity to respond to unfair reviews.
     
  16. blogzandstuff

    blogzandstuff Elite Member

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    Surely they can respond using the reply button
     
  17. WilhelmScream

    WilhelmScream Marketplace Mod Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP BHW Intern

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    Sellers are actually allowed to respond to negative reviews - our process is that buyers are allowed to leave one negative review, and sellers are allowed to respond to it once. Any discourse further than that turns into thread hijacking, so it shouldn't go beyond that.

    I think it would be good if reviews were made more prominent in a sales thread, and it's definitely worth looking into. Otherwise, I would recommend making use of the iTrader feedback to show other members how good a seller is.


    Generally, there seems to be a lot of call to have regular annual reviews for existing sales threads - the problem is that there is a very large number of sales threads. While it's definitely something we're considering, it would take time to find a way for it to be implemented properly and efficiently.

    In the meantime, if a sales thread seems to have lots of negative reviews and you don't believe that the service is being delivered to the same standard that is promised in their sales copy, you can report the sales thread, which will mean that a marketplace mod will know to look into it and re-review if necessary.
     
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  18. Sephrata

    Sephrata Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Yes, but it should appear below the original review and appear as a response. Otherwise the owner might reply a week later (or not at all) and you have to go through the thread to find it.

    I think iTrader is a bit redundant to be honest.

    As a buyer, I am looking for services which meet my needs and confidence in the seller. The first part is fairly straight forward, you look at the opening post and then ask questions, if necessary. The second part is trickier if I don't know the seller on the forum generally. This is where I think a separate section (sub-thread) or some kind of system for highlighting reviews should come into play.

    I don't think this is necessary. If there are issues with a sales thread, there is someone who is going to post about it in the sales thread, create a Shit List or report it to an admin/mod.

    If you had some form of rating system, then this would also allow admin/mods to keep track of threads that are slipping and do periodic checks.
     
  19. blogzandstuff

    blogzandstuff Elite Member

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    What about a separate tab for reviews, so it would keep them off the sales page but still present on the actual thread? Mods wouldn't have to trawel the thread, just click to tab to see
     
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  20. Sephrata

    Sephrata Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    I think this would be a good solution. I imagine it would also encourage more people to leave legitimate reviews.