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Have you SEO experts ever thought about making money from more than internet?

Discussion in 'Introductions' started by Chris Peng, Sep 6, 2015.

  1. Chris Peng

    Chris Peng Newbie

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    I'm a newbie in SEO. But as I can see, most of the SEO pros are making money from SEO other's website and get the one-time paycheck.

    What I wanna say is: isn't this seems a little shortsighted? Why don't you make your own business and SEO your own?

    As I mentioned, I'm a newbie in this area, so maybe most of you guys are already doing business in this way.

    But anyway, I'd love to talk about this with all you nice people.
     
  2. Chris Peng

    Chris Peng Newbie

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    For example, I'm doing a business with a output value over 10,000,000 EURO. But this number is totaly without internet sales and spread, only one category of product, only in European.

    So I can't not even imagine how much it will make if there's multiple categories of product and worldwide sale with internet marketing.
     
  3. lightningblitz

    lightningblitz Elite Member

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    We are experts at SEO. We are not experts at building houses.

    Why would someone learn how to build houses, get licensed, build a website, hire employees to build houses, register a company, just to get a bigger cut?

    In the same vein, why dont carpenters just learn SEO rather than pay someone to do SEO and keep a bigger piece of the pie?

    The answer is it does not make sense to expect a person to become an expert at another subject to make a little more money.
     
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  4. Chris Peng

    Chris Peng Newbie

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    I think you and me stand for a two types of thinking model:

    One is to focus on one area and keep improving.
    The other one is expand the scale, control the supply chain etc...

    It's really difficult to say which one is right.

    But what's confusing me is: how many people are seriously considered this like you, or never thought about this?
     
  5. tony_d

    tony_d Elite Member

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    I think OP's point goes to something I posted here maybe 6-8months ago - which is, creating value is good, but capturing more of it is where the real cash lies.

    I don't think it needs to go as far as the SEO guy becoming a builder (in sticking with the example), but I think that if the SEO guy looked to capture more of the value that he creates, he would be well served. He might partner with a builder in a JV under the 'I get the clients, you do the work' model, or anything in between.

    In the local leads space that I primarily operate in, I'm at varying stages of capturing value, depending on how I get along with my client and how interested I am in their business.

    At the extreme, capturing as much value as possible:
    I have taken equity positions in some of my clients companies, which nets me significantly more than a fee-for-service model ever could. That said - that was after 2+ years of working together, and them realizing that I'm immensely valuable in the results I generate, and me realizing that they're really quite good at executing. In broad terms, I make the phone ring, and I take a share of the company's entire profits each month/quarter, but I also spend a few hours a quarter on things like conversion training for their sales guys, up-selling, etc.

    A little less value captured:
    Under this model, I just send them phone calls, and bill them for conversions. I'm still taking all of the risk, in that I don't get paid unless they convert, but it's a relationship that can be terminated by me at any point if I take a dim view of my client or the way they operate, or if they annoy me too much or don't pay their invoice on time each week.

    Even less value captured:
    In this less often used model, I send them the calls, and charge them per call. Each call, under this model, might pay me something like 15% of what it would under the first model listed above, and 40% of what it might pay under the second model listed above. It's a model that shifts risk away from me, and onto the client - and therefore, I get paid less. But it's stress free, and I don't need to care about my clients business beyond the fact that their phone rings each day.

    Almost no value captured:
    I have some sites that I just don't care about, so I don't bother tracking phone calls or conversions, and just collect a flat monthly fee from the client, under a site rental agreement. This captures almost none of the value that I generate, but it's also the lightest on risk to me, and the lowest touch with my clients, because aside from the initial setup, it just pays me monthly by PayPal.

    There is benefit that comes with under-optimization of a business model. I would go quite literally crazy and loopy if I tried to work with ALL my clients on the first model (equity in their company), and at the same time, I would earn almost nothing if I just rented sites to clients.
    The balance for me is between how much money I want to make, and how I am willing to have my life impacted in order to make that cash.

    If you think SEO is about SEO, you're going to make a little bit of cash ranking sites.
    If you think SEO is about creating value, you realize that SEO is just the beginning, and the 'real work' begins when you set about determining quite how you'd like to capture that value, without creating a dis-incentive on the clients side.
     
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  6. lightningblitz

    lightningblitz Elite Member

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    You miss the point.

    I learned SEO to rank a real business. I ranked said business and make money from it.

    To become an 'expert' in that business it took me, say, 7 years or so. I know the industry in and out and sell a lot of my own product.

    Although I keep learning and expanding my own knowledge, I know it is NOT realistic to become a dentist so I can make a site about dentistry.

    The business model makes more sense to do what you are an expert at. This does not mean people do not venture out. It is a risk vs reward situation.

    If I can rank ten sites, learn the niche in and out and put up quality content and sell a product, why would I become a plumber to make a site promoting my business just because I know how to rank on google?

    What most SEO's do is select a niche, find good KWs in the niche after researching, write content, and rank the site. They then pick the best way to make money with the site. If the best way to make money is to create a product, we do it. If the best way is to put up Adsense, we do it. If the best way to make money is to sell a clickbank product, we do it.

    Those who sell services or links on BHW sell them because they already have a process and it makes a LOT of money. Those who help local clients rank do it because learning every skill in the world is impossible and the best way to make money is by helping others rank (Dentist, Doctor, Carpenter, ect). Those who build sites and rank them for personal passive income learn enough about a niche to build the site and pick KWs and then choose the most efficacious way to make money. This can involve a product and control the supply chain, expand, ect.

    Most of us do not make 'one time payment' income off of clients. We get a recurring client and lock in income for a year +. SEO is a business and it is often not about a single 'payday' (Except for site flippers and those who only need one payday). SEO is an ongoing process which is a business in and of it self.

    The only difference in thinking is this:

    1. SEO's who select the best niche possible and make money in the most efficacious way possible.
    2. People who can't rank.

    I know of no SEO who makes money off of one time payments only. SEO is a business of creating real relationships with clients for life time business or creating a passive income stream so you do not need to work for someone else.


    EDIT:

    Here comes Tony posting what I am too tired to articulate. Thank you.
     
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  7. myopic1

    myopic1 Regular Member

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    From a slightly different angle, I capture the value that Tony mentions through a different medium. The lowest effort and least risk of my example would be an Amazon affiliates website, 5% of a £200 product is nice and requires no effort beyond the initial rankings but it's not 50-60% nice. That's not to say this model doesn't work or it can't be scaled up.

    The next level up for me would be selling the goods of other manufacturers or wholesalers, this is a significant step up in terms of effort and risk but the margins and profits on what I sell justify the risk, as I wouldn't sell anything below £1k and I also have them to fall back on if the shit hits the fan with the products and they provide some of the other services that go hand in hand with what I sell.

    The next evolution for me is creating my own products, which is where the real money is and where I'll eventually head. Then you have a number of other middle men selling your products for you and you become industry recognised. Massive risk, massive returns.

    If you create your own business and do SEO for it as you mentioned, you've created a regular job that is limited by your physical time, although a fairly lucrative one at that. None the less, knowing you can do effective SEO is like someone giving you vision, starting a time dependent business and focusing on that, is like wearing a blindfold to the real possibilities that are out there.
     
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  8. Finez

    Finez Regular Member

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    SEO Exists on the internet only thats why.....
     
  9. myopic1

    myopic1 Regular Member

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    But it's effects slam into the real world in incredible ways...
     
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  10. Nonilol

    Nonilol Elite Member

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    Its usually not THAT easy to scale a business up mate.
    One product category = 10,000,000€ output value doesnt mean two product categories would make 20,000,000€ output value.
     
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  11. tony_d

    tony_d Elite Member

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    If you have no real business experience, you would indeed say that doubling your product line will double your revenue :)