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go to court or pay the fine?

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by truid, Feb 25, 2012.

  1. truid

    truid Junior Member

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    I recently came across a .pdf ebook which claims to help people get out of having to pay the fine for speeding (or some other traffic violation). The .pdf can be downloaded at
    Code:
    http://anonym.to/http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3601206/the-order-pdf-february-25-2012-12-16-pm-368k?da=y
    for anyone curious as to what I'm referring to.

    My question is, is the information contained in the ebook full of shit? Or is there any validity to it?

    In one paragraph the author of the ebook wrote the following:
    1st Question, is this true for all States? Or does it depend on the State/Country or City as to how traffic laws are handled?

    The ebook goes on to say that a person cannot be charged under one jurisdiction and defend yourself under a different one. Hopefully I'm not quoting too much and am within the "fair use" clause of our copyright laws.
    So, I'm prepared to go to the police station and pay the fine, or I could go to traffic court and dispute it. According to the ebook I'm reading it says the following:
    Is this guy full of b.s.? Or is there any chance this is legitimate? Truth be told, I don't really want to test it in a court of law and find myself in contempt of court and being charged with something worse (or a higher fine).

    Thoughts, suggestions? My initial thought was just to pay the fine and be done with it.
     
  2. dr.pepper

    dr.pepper Regular Member

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    Try asking one of the local lawyers in your hometown such as the ones who offer a "free consutation" and pick his brains in that
     
  3. suave

    suave Regular Member

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    do you know any officers you can also pick their brains and see what type of advise you get. I had a speeding ticket and was going to fight the ticket in "Califormia" the office never showed to court and the case was dismiss not always the case so if you show up make sure you have some kind of documentation, also when you show up the judge might give you some kind of discount so that you pay the fee (also happen to me 300 ticket to 150)
    Regards
    Suave
     
  4. marusia

    marusia Senior Member

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    I don't know what USA state you live in...but here's ALL your options.

    1. Go to traffic school if it's your first speeding ticket. Cost will be more upfront usually, but less in the long run after figuring in your insurance increase.

    2. Get a deferral. (This is NOT available in all states and they do NOT publicly admit to this.) You pay a fee and the ticket "goes away" UNLESS you get ANOTHER speeding ticket in the next year. Then you get TWO speeding tickets on your record. So basically, if you don't make a habit of speeding, this MIGHT be your best option.

    3. Pay the fine, and admit guilt. If you go to court, they ask you a reasonable amount of time you can pay by. Then you'll pay at the Circuit clerk.

    4. Go to court and say you don't agree to the charge. If you're going to go this route, make sure you look professional. Bring a briefcase and put some papers in it. I don't know how it works in your state, but I've had a friend do this twice. They wait until they've charged everyone that pleads guilty and then you go in front and if the cop that issued the ticket isn't there, then they can dismiss the charge. But it's iffy. So, I wouldn't try that.

    I'd recommend number one first, unless you can control your speeding and number two is allowed in your state. I've used both of those once each.

    I am not a lawyer though, this is just my experience and whatever you choose to do is of your own accord. :)
     
  5. bertbaby

    bertbaby Elite Member

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    When getting the ticket ask the office if it was a radar gun or clocked. If it's a gun ask him to show you the actual speed. If he is full of shit he may decline and then that is admissible during your hearing. If clocked you have less of a case. You can always go to the hearing and hope they don't show. Be polite and don't be an asshole, they have guns and they know how to use them.
     
  6. zebrahat

    zebrahat Elite Member

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    I remember attending some presentations for PPL (Pre-Paid legal Services) where it was explained that the use of an affordable attorney services for traffic fine situations could very frequently result in a dropping of the charges and fees. There are tricks involving showing that the officer inaccurately or under-documented the situation during ticketing, making the fee challengable. That would be one way to fight the ticket.

    The other route is to go whole hog into the Admiralty issue, but that requires a lot of research, and you may not have the time to make that case properly. E.g., your task in going to court is to NOT "go to court"---that's the main point behind bringing up Admiralty law concepts. Pleading, using a lawyer, or even representing yourself there all puts you under that law, so makes it fruitless to fight the system you have conceded jurisdiction to by "going to court" in the first place.

    Proceedings in court covertly proceed under an Admiralty law and commercial basis, while giving superficial lip service to the common law concepts most people think drives the proceedings. The form may be Constitutional, but the substance is more like the UCC. Your common law constitutional standing is stripped once you "cross the railing" in every court, because by submitting to the court's jurisdiction you become subject to the Admiralty law, and concede association of your physical being with a commercial entity "ALL CAPS" person. If you don't research this issue thoroughly, or can't follow what was just said, you're better off just paying the fine, or finding a lawyer who can finesse you out of it.
     
  7. Virus1

    Virus1 Supreme Member

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    Welcome to Black Hat World........................
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    This is what I do.

    I go get an attorney... you will pay him about what the ticket costs...
    but the ticket will most likely go away... no record.... no increase insurance... less hassle.
     
  8. Nigel Farage

    Nigel Farage BANNED BANNED

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    The say the biggest sucker for a con is a con. Guess if a person spends enough time in Internet Marketing trying to get as much as possible with as little effort as possible, eventually they start to believe that you really can get something for nothing and other crazy and self-destructive notions. They come to believe in the word "free" as if it really exists in the real world. In this case, it's a "free" way out of a legal situation that is specifically designed to extract money from an individual by holding their freedom for ransom until they pay the criminals that have them by the short-hairs.

    As a matter of general principal, I'd want to know about the author of that little ditty's law degree. And also if he's been paying his malpractice insurance. That's why they have this massive system of checks & balances with certain professions (like law). It's to prevent irresponsible, whack-job personalities from leading people into dire legal situations that may deprive them of wealth and liberty. My guess is that the author is not an attorney, because an attorney could be risking his entire future by publishing crack-pot ideas. Society is much more tolerant of crack-pots that are not lawyers, doctors, etc...

    I remember a few years back there was this movement across the US that said that the "Federal Emergency" powers Congress granted to FDR were unconstitutional, and that the creation of the Federal Reserve and the IRS was also unconstitutional, and so the IRS did not have the legal authority to tax anyone. And also that a citizen could declare themselves "sovereign" and then would not be required to pay taxes either.

    My father got hooked-up with an accountant that believed all this horse manure, and after a couple of years of red-flagged tax returns, the IRS finally lowered the boom and audited him. The Accountant went to prison. My mother was paying the IRS for years, even after my father died.

    So, I'm a bit hostile to anyone that claims to have some kind of wild-eyed guru, wandering around in the wilderness communing with God and now he comes forth with the TRUTH that will set you free, if only you read the truth, believe in the truth and the glory of God and his Holy Messenger, etc.... Personally, I think these crackpots need a baseball bat to the bony ridge immediately above the nose and between the eyes. Properly administered, the blow should drive a splinter of bone fragment directly into the brain, resulting in instant death. We'd all be better off.

    To the immediate question, is there some kind of magic legal arguement that can be made in court by those lucky and intelligent enough to understand the true meaning of christmas, I mean seriously think about it.

    The traffic courts are income generators. Dontcha think if there was some kind of slippery legal case to be made, they would have closed that loophole long ago? And if they didn't, dontcha think every monkey with a lead foot and a penchant for drinking & driving would have trotted those .pdf nuggets out for all the world to see?

    It's a formulated method, common amongst scammers, black hatters and snake-oil salesman since before the time when Neanderthals were selling special leaves to make Cro-Magnon erections last longer. The "hidden, secret truth" that only a few special, lucky and intelligent people get to know, and all that's required to open the gates of heaven is just a devout and fervent belief in the Lord God Almighty and his humble servant, the shyster.
     
  9. zebrahat

    zebrahat Elite Member

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    There is no magic bullet or legal theory, but no one was talking about magic. Farage, as before stated, the case using the above concepts has to be made properly, but an improper case does not mean the approach is fraudulent. And note no real argument or expertise was referenced in your derisive rant either. Here's an example of an individual who used the method successfully last year to beat back paying property taxes:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKG0wUJWbcI
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2012
  10. unknownn

    unknownn BANNED BANNED

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    Depending on the country you live he is totaly right.
    In the US there is the constitution.Act of 1894 changed natural people into commercial law.Right at the moment most americans are threated as goods under commercial law.Once you realize that you have a "strawman" and only represent him you will see very fast you wont need to pay any fines.
    In the UK its the same.They use Law of the sea instead of the comman wealth law.
    In Germany as example its diffrent.They ask to pay your fine because you broke a law "Ordnungswiedrigkeitengesetz".This law doesnt exist anymore since 1990 but they still use it and after they got a warning from Den Haag they officaly declared the law as not valid.Its called Bundesbereinigungsgesetz.But guess what they are still asking citizens to pay the fines using this old law and people are willing to pay cause they are just dumb and dont know their rights.They are sending letters out telling you to pay the fine but you will never find a signature on it (how the old law asked for it) because no one wants to take responsibility for it as people can sue them at Den Haag for ilegal actions.Thats also why you will never get a signed court decission since 95% of german law isnt valid anymore.


    Here an example of the US/CA where a FREEMAN know his rights and dont accept to be the strawman

    See how the judge is trying to get jurisdiction over that guy saying to sit down ,trying to call him as agent of his strawmen etc

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzjv20sC5CY
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2012
  11. unknownn

    unknownn BANNED BANNED

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    @to op only go fighting your rights if you really understand what you are doing.Else it could end in a mess
     
  12. truepals_forever

    truepals_forever Senior Member

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    Wrong forum bro