1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Finding hidden website owner

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by pdaguy9, Dec 26, 2007.

  1. pdaguy9

    pdaguy9 BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2007
    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    98
    Hey all,

    I've got a little problem. I have a guy that set up a site that says that one of my sites is a scam site (which it is not).

    His whois is hidden by domain by proxy.

    How do I get in touch with this douchebag and let him know I will sue his ass?
     
  2. caretaker2007

    caretaker2007 Power Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    720
    Likes Received:
    454
    Occupation:
    To create income streams
    Location:
    In a 6 by 3 plot
    Home Page:
    First, send a complaint to the site owner with a CC to the host stating that he/she needs to remove it. 24 hours is a good amount of time.

    Then, 24 hours later, send an email to his host letting them know you are launching a lawsuit against the site owner for defamation and loss of income and request that they give you the name of their attorney so they can get served at his office for allowing it to be there.

    I once hosted a site that was taken down this way, but, I was able to prove that the site that complained was a scam, so if you are a scam drop it and let it ride.

    It works better for smaller hosting companies that do not want the law sniffing around them than it does for large stupid corporations.
     
  3. Uptownbulker

    Uptownbulker BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    960
    Likes Received:
    477
    OK; here is the real deal on this matter and please don't get pissed off at me, I'm not going to tell you a pack of lies; I'm just going to tell you how it is!

    If you do not have at least ten grand to hand to an attorney as a retainer, you ain't going to sue anybody! Internet law is currently far to vague and not well enough established to sue some guy because he has lied about you unless the lie is so blatant that a deaf, dumb and blind person can see it!

    Besides, what do you hope to get from him? A retraction? Money? Has he got any money and even if you were to win, how would you get that money? If he is hosted or located offshore, you are fucked anyway as you would have to file in whatever jurisdiction he is located.

    I get threatened with lawsuits about once a week and I tell'em that I've been in court before, that I'm sure I''ll be in court again, if they feel froggy, they should jump on, cause I ain't scared!

    Spend your time productively elsewhere, doing things like building up your site, establishing your credibility and making money.

    There will ALWAYS be guys like him who want to keep others from being successful because they are so unsuccessful themselves.

    Do NOT give this guy free rent in your head!

    Fuck these internet assholes!

    Treat them like a bump in the road.....go over it fast enough and you won't even feel it!

    My $.02 based on many, many hours in courtrooms!
     
  4. maxxmann

    maxxmann Newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2007
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    12
    words to live by!!!
     
  5. pdaguy9

    pdaguy9 BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2007
    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    98
    My cousin is an attorney and it won't cost me a dime. All I want is every reference to my site deleted. He could end up costing me about $3000 per month.

    Not saying I will in fact sue him, but my cousin will write a formidable letter that may do the trick.

    Only thing is, I don't know how to contact him.
     
  6. bazookajoe

    bazookajoe Newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2007
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    42
    If your cousin is an attorney, he should know the correct steps to take, and might be able to subpoena the domain registration records, and find out the real name.

    In the meantime, you could have your attorney send a cease and desist letter to any e-mail address, or physical addresses associated with this persons web site.

    However, I agree with Uptownbulker, the best thing to do is move on, and use your energy to focus on your site. The best that you'll probably come out of the deal with, is that this person removes the offending material. As far as suing him goes, you're probably wasting your time.

    BJ
     
  7. Uptownbulker

    Uptownbulker BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    960
    Likes Received:
    477
    OK, I do see your point but you do say that the guy COULD cost you money?

    How ya gonna prove that?

    Has he actually cost you money so far or are you just speculating?

    Here is my philosophy on lawyers (Borrowed from Robert J. Ringer and tweaked a bit by me!)

    You use lawyers ONLY to help you get money owed you, to intimidate others, to defend you in criminal matters and to get you out of deals that you are too embarrassed to get out of on your own.

    I hate to say it and this goes back to the lack of precedent in internet law but your cousin ain't much of a lawyer or he would have already done the following:

    (1) Send an intimidating email from the law firm's address to the guy's "contact" addy on his website.

    (2) Send the same email to the guy's host.

    (3) Send the same email to his registrar.

    (4) Send the same email to ICAAN.

    (5) Send the same email to whoever is holding his domain by proxy.

    Most likely, such an email will be simply added to the other 3,479,638 similar emails which are lying around the various offices.

    All of the above might work or he may well tell you to go fuck yourself or you might get lucky and the guy will pull the website reference but I would not count on it.

    Good luck!

    By the way, it is my considered and firm belief that around 60% of all attorneys should be summarily disbarred and the other 40% should be censured and put on probation.
     
  8. pdaguy9

    pdaguy9 BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2007
    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    98
    I'm just looking for a way to contact this guy. Thats all. The only email available is via hissite[at]domainsbyproxy.com. His registrar is Godaddy. Don't know the host. Has no contact info on his site.

    My cousin hasn't done anything because I haven't asked him to yet. I have in fact seen sales decline on my site since his site came online. Can I attribute it to him? I don't know. But I sure as hell want to at least send him a letter or email.

    The fucked up thing is that he is good at SEO. Whenever you google my main keyword his site comes up right under mine on the first page.

    So once again I'll ask... Is there anyway to find out how to contact this guy if his domain info is hidden by proxy?
     
  9. SmallStorm

    SmallStorm Junior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2007
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    64
    At one point in my internet marketing venture, I had used a keyword on many sites that was actually a doctor's name. All my sites were behind domainsbyproxy Somehow, the doctor's attorney was able to get domainsbyproxy to send my contact info to the attorney or they would no longer provide the private whois service to me; and it cost me $20 when they requested my info.

    On domainsbyproxy site, you might be able to find info on how an attorney can request he give up his contact info to the attorney. Here is a page to start at: hxxp://www.domainsbyproxy.com/LegalAgreement.aspx?prog_id=

    In the right hand box, it lists different reasons for contacting them and what to do. Maybe start with the Defamation/Libel Complaints link. Your attorney should be able to interpret the required steps to report a violation to them.

    Chris
     
  10. pdaguy9

    pdaguy9 BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2007
    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    98
    Thanks Chris.
     
  11. Zso

    Zso BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2007
    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    880
    There are some methods to decrease a site's search engine rank (just search BHW for the method) and use it...
     
  12. MaestroDelWeb

    MaestroDelWeb Executive VIP

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2007
    Messages:
    815
    Likes Received:
    869
    Occupation:
    Jack of all trades.
    Location:
    USA
    Here are a few ways to get anonymous whois information that don't require an attorney, none of them are guaranteed to work and a lot of times they don't work, but it's only five minutes of work, free and always worth a try:

    1. Sometimes people register a domain and add whois privacy after it's registered. For this you can find the information out; by viewing the domain whois history. You can find that here http://domain-history.domaintools.com/ . There is no guarantee you will get the information this way, but it's worth a try and you'll be surprised sometimes you find what you want to know. Also they have a free trial so you can get this information for free as long as you cancel your trial within 10 days.

    2. With whois protection the nameservers where the site is hosted at are still listed on the whois. For example the site's nameservers are ns1.exampledomain.com, you then first check what exampledomain.com is...sometimes you get lucky and that leads you to a page where you can contact them or some other site that reveals their information.

    Most likely you'll have to do another whois search whois.domaintools.com/exampledomain.com. With this new whois you might get lucky and get some contact information. This information could be their host or if you're extremely lucky they forgot to do whois protection on this domain and it's the person you're looking for.

    3. If the first two ways failed use those nameservers ns1.exampledomain.com. Go to http://dnsstuff.com and go to DNS Lookup and type in the domain name exampledomain.com, then scroll to NS and click Lookup. Now at least you know the IP is 111.111.11.111. With this hit back on your browser and go to IP Whois Lookup put in the IP address 111.111.11.111 and click Whois. That will tell you who owns the IP addresses and you can click on the blue line that says NET-111-111-111-111 and it will give you a name and address. Usually this is the hosts information. Some of the smaller, younger hosts are easier to scare and intimidate you might be able to get some information out of them, but it's probably going to take a lawyer or court order to get anything done with this method. It would be easier to scare them into suspending the person's site.