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Euro-Style Debt Crisis in US?

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by BlackSeng, Dec 22, 2010.

  1. BlackSeng

    BlackSeng Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    - Yahoo News: http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/20101221/tts-us-economy-deficit-local-c1b2fc3.html


    Damn, that sent chills down my spine!
     
  2. Mises

    Mises Junior Member

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    The article suggests the recession is over- that's a joke. Anyone who even lightly follows the Fed and economic news knows that any small improvements seen are likely just due to false prop-ups by the government. And DOW gains aren't a good source to show recovery either- just look at what happened to all the bad assets, they weren't sold, dropped, or dealt with- the Fed has just bought trillions in them.

    Had it not been for the Build America Bond program, the municipalities referred to in the article would've cut back earlier and/or defaulted already. We are currently experiencing a culture that doesn't believe in a major backbone of the system- default- and false prop-ups will prolong this relatively mild recession until everything just falls like a house of cards.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 22, 2010
  3. BlackSeng

    BlackSeng Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    It's really sad.... I mean, I really-really miss the times when the U.S. currency was still strong then... now its value is dropping so rapidly that even I'm worried for it.

    But of course, it doesn't just mean the U.S. currency's value is dropping; my country's currency is strengthening like mad too. This sucks~
     
  4. Chronos

    Chronos Junior Member

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    Ya.


    This is why I buy about $1000 silver/month, I bought a hand gun (Beretta 92 FS), I bought an assault rifle (Bushmaster AR-15)


    The world is a fucked up place right now. With peak oil and the world economy declining, I can't even imagine what the next step will be.
     
  5. BlackSeng

    BlackSeng Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Oh yeah, and not to mention the decomposition of morals....
     
  6. Mises

    Mises Junior Member

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    Any commodity is a good hedge, but if you buy them in currency-denominated funds, you have to be careful. Physical commodities are good, but sometimes harder to manage- in the case of complete disaster though they are certainly the ultimate hedge.
     
  7. aldragon

    aldragon Power Member

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    currencies are loosing serp really fast
     
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  8. silentthunder

    silentthunder Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    I couldn't agree more. The jingo and jingles from the status quo is a joke. Trillions of dollars stolen. Trillions! Not so very long ago the U.S. Gross National Product was less than a trillion a year. There is no bouncing back from that for things as they once were. Black Hat and IM however is another story. It is alive and well because the sheer velocity and barter built into it exceeds their control which is why they want to shut the web down. Not likely but....

    "Even with that move we leave them in anguish,
    we'll learn sign language we can't be stopped!"
    -Geto Boys
     
  9. Monrox

    Monrox Power Member

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    I just hope you're buying real gold (why silver?) and not some paper stating you have the ownership over such and such quantity being stored securely on Mars.
     
  10. nme

    nme Junior Member

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    Silver is highly undervalued. It will appreciate even more then gold in 2011 as it did this past year.
     
  11. tygrus

    tygrus Supreme Member

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl4NlA97GeQ&feature=player_embedded#!
     
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  12. unknownn

    unknownn BANNED BANNED

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    recession is basicly over thats a fact.Right now you guys will see a hyperinflation on goods which people needs to live or to secure their money like food,oil,power,silver,gold etc and a recession for luxury stuff.

    I'm also preparing a safe heaven as myself i'm even pretty sure the US Elite wont just go down and give away the cepter to china and will start a war to try get out of the crisis.
    You can already see the preparation in europe which changes armies into paid ones and from a defense into an offense army,installing rocket shields for the US etc....
     
  13. mrcashout

    mrcashout Newbie

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    The Recession might be over on paper, but the truth is real unemployment is much higher and in some major U.S. cities is well above 20% If you have any kind of money I would strongly suggest you invest in gold, silver and other precious metals. Gold is trading well above $1400 and ounce.
     
  14. sfidirectory

    sfidirectory Senior Member

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    It's this that is ruining the whole worlds economy. Whatever happens in America will trickle throughout the rest of the world. They (along with my governments f#$%ken excessive fuel tax) are to blame for my countries petrol prices (am in NZ) going above $2 a litre (a US gallon is 3.75 litres). When petrol prices rise, everything else rises. I know people keep saying you just have to live with it, but if we ignore issues like this, it will surely become near impossible in the near future.

    What about all the countries the US owe $$$ to? I surely hope they don't owe too much to countries like China, Russia, Japan etc because an out-of-control debt problem means they will never get repaid and it could be a catalyst for WWIII.

    I've read all this stuff lately that the Illuminati control the central banks etc. I thought the government were the ones that looked after the Federal Reserve, the World Bank etc, but if world governments are in huge amounts of debt, then that wouldn't be true.

    The American government should stop being so greedy and dragging the rest of the world down with them. It's unfortunate they are an economic powerhouse because other countries like my own are forced to be dragged down with them (at least we didn't go into combat with them in Iraq and Afghanistan), and we have to pay the consequences for their actions

    Don't get me wrong, I am not making fun of the general American population. I have met plenty of Americans while I travelled in my younger days and they are very friendly etc, its their government that needs to wake up and stop the rot. I have a big dream of going to the US hopefully within the next 5 years but with everything that is going on I'm not sure what I would have to see once I get off the plane.
     
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  15. elpadrino23

    elpadrino23 Registered Member

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    The Most Important Commentary You Will Read All Year

    Now that the Asians have begun to convert their dollar-based reserves and assets into physical gold and silver, the world will soon understand the degree to which U.S. and European banking systems have issued to investors an absurd amount of paper claims on gold/silver which does not exist to be delivered. This imbalance - of which the paper amount outstanding is several 100 multiples (including OTC derivatives per the BIS quarterly bank reports) the amount of actual supply of gold/silver - will be resolved such that price of gold/silver in all currencies will soar to levels that take even the most ardent goldbugs by surprise...

    http://truthingold.blogspot.com/2010/12/most-important-commentary-you-will-read.html
     
  16. Mises

    Mises Junior Member

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    Not sure how you got to that but when government bond yields sky rocket to the point where some countries can no longer finance debt, I would say there is a debt problem. Look at the GDP-debt ratios for some of the big spenders- Ireland, Greece, Portugal, Spain- it isn't pretty.

    And why do you think E-bonds are being discussed as a solution? It's because investors are still willing to buy bonds issued by the entire EU due to the strong players there, but they don't want the junk from the weak players. The EU's troubles are absolutely a debt crisis and not primarily a liquidity crisis. It was too much free money that caused the crisis and more of it won't solve it. Germany realizes that, hence their stronger recovery (vs. the US).
     
  17. Monrox

    Monrox Power Member

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    @sfidirectory: you seem to be missing the point. Debt is not bad. When I keep money in the bank, the bank is indebted to me. Yet they will gladly accept more because it's making them richer. I wouldn't know what to do with the cash so the best I can come up with is at least geting interest from it. That is why America doesn't have a problem with all this, it's essentially the biggest bank on Earth.

    Romania used to be a debt free-country. It made them very poor.

    As to the euro, well, they could give out bonds but who's going to take them? China I doubt it. The Russians just don't care, they like diamonds and furs (a wise choice). The problem there are the weak players. Germany is raising the retirement age to 60 + so that Greece can keep it at 50+, I don't think that is going to be tolerated for much longer. It's like merging the US $ with the mexican pesso and hope for a financial synergy in some undefined future.
     
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  18. unknownn

    unknownn BANNED BANNED

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    reading some posts is making me really heachaches of the low level of knowledge what really happens.

    @Mad there is already something like a Euro Bond just not called so.Right now basicly only Germany is trusted to be able to pay their bonds off their % on bonds are rising fast too and the country is already bankrupt.They have no money they are printing like hell

    @sfi
    You are kidding right ?China got 2 trillion US $ in us treasuries and could blow the whole US economic in a single day if they would like

    @qwartzy
    qwartzy i guess you watch to much propaganda tv.There is no overpopulation maybe the elite would love to reduce the amount of citizen.About global warming :) i guess its nonsense to talk about it as we can see the winter and that even in afica its snowing.
    We got right now a cooling and the clima is working in cycles and cant be changed by human.The US tried even to make CO2 as a toxic gas :D LOL We need CO2 so our trees can live but ok.

    @monrox
    reading your post shows me you dont know how a bank really works and why we got a big issue.

    If you have 100k$ and deposit it in the bank... the bank will give 90% of this money as loan to somebody else.This guy is buying something and another guy who earned the money pays the money back to the bank.So the bank takes again the money and give somebody else again a loan of 80k's who buys again etc etc.....
    Means the bank is loaning your money 10-20 times.For each loan the bank is getting %.
    Now there is only 100k$ real money as the rest is just virtual money created buy the bank by the air.If you can count that the bank is collecting % of each loan by just having your money as deposit they are making a very high profit.It also causes bubles as people are spending money which doesnt exist.
    But once 2 people are trying to get their money in cash from the bank ...the bank cant pay as there is only 100k's in real cash.So what happens is the fed is prodcing new money and loan to the bank so they can pay the 2 people.But this also means that the value of your 100k's dropped by 50% as the fiat money growed 100%.

    If today just 5% would take their money out of the bank the whole system would collepse instantly.
    If you guys think about it the banks are robbing by giving virtual stuff all real goods in the world and even your work.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 23, 2010
  19. Mises

    Mises Junior Member

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    I am pretty sure he is referring to the newly proposed eurozone bonds which do not currently exist. As for yields- Germany isn't the only one with a decent rate- France is up there too. As for Germany's yields, they are still manageable and the country is certainly not bankrupt- I have no idea where you're getting that from. And no, they aren't just printing like hell- it is all what the ECB prints. If anything Germany is trying to keep the free money and inflation down.

    The last report shows ~$900 billion. Still a significant sum of course, but not 2 trillion. As for blowing the US economy in 1 day- not quite. As soon as they start unloading, the rest of their USD-denominated assets would tank. Much more likely if they want to unload is that they gradually unload while at the same time continue to buy US treasuries at a smaller pace to keep up the vision that they believe in the USD. With their recent announcement to buy Portuguese bonds though, I am not sure they are looking to dump anything just yet.

    As for your first post in this thread you say the recession is over yet you expect hyperinflation. What's the logic there?
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2010
  20. tygrus

    tygrus Supreme Member

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    Unknown, while that is true, its just like holding a gun to your head and someone else's at the same time.

    China can destroy the U.S. economy, but would destroy their own at the same time. Their own people do not have enough money or are willing to go into debt to buy all the cheap shit they make so right now, they need the U.S. too.

    The $2 trillion they hold is U.S dollars so blowing up the U.S. economy would devalue the dollar and the chinese would be left holding toilet paper. So its economic stalemate.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Zjn-3ImdL8&feature=related