Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by K114a, Dec 30, 2016.
whats your thought on dropping out of school / college? i just feel its not WORTH IT
You gonna go through a million things in life that feel like they are not worth it but some of those things might turn out to be great or at least useful if you stick them out.
I'm not lambasting you for posting this, it's just that these threads come up every week, and every week it's the same exact conversation.
I would never advise anyone to drop out of school until they finish high school at least. Of course that there are some successful people that have less formal education but they are few.
College is a whole other story...
First you learn, then you earn!
Depends what you're studying. If it's a science/engineering degree, stick it out!
What you said has nothing related with going to school.
Unless you want to be an obedient employee.
Going to school has many advantages and disadvantages. The greatest advantage is that you not only learn from what the teachers have to say, but you learn from the people around you as you grow. Of course, studying chemistry while interested in economics won't give you any advantages, but if you don't need a high grade then there should be no problem. However, the biggest disadvantage, from my point of view, is the fact that in some countries you can't study what you are interested in and you have to study according to a prepared schedule by the government. That's why, I study in a private school and I have the opportunity to maneuver and I always get max grades at the end of the year, without spending effort on the subjects I don't like.
Even thought that I don't visit every single class, I still believe that going to school is beneficial and one should not drop-out.
Here we go again.
Here's what I always try to post in these: https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/l...llege-vs-im-debate-and-other-thoughts.816016/
I've noticed so many threads lately either about this topic, or that turn into this topic. All of them end with people on the extreme ends of the spectrum. Can we at least all agree to the following:
On a profitability scale of $ to $$$$$ IN MOST CASES:
Option 1) INPUT: No college, No entrepreneurial spirit. OUTPUT: $ - $$. VULNERABILITY: Average
Option 2) INPUT: Yes college, No entrepreneurial spirit. OUTPUT: $$ - $$$$. VULNERABILITY: Low to Average
Option 3) INPUT: No college, Yes entrepreneurial spirit. OUTPUT: $ - $$$$. VULNERABILITY: High
Option 4) INPUT: Yes college, Yes entrepreneurial spirit. OUTPUT: $$$ - $$$$$. VULNERABILITY: Low
What does this mean?
Option 1 person never went to college and knows nothing about the world of business or online anything. They work doing manual labor or some menial office related task, or customer service, and will rarely rise above the ranks of "manager". Their job-getting abilities are relatively safe, as they "specialize" in something that is available and relatively in demand most everywhere.
Option 2 person did the typical college route, but doesn't have the cajones to break into what we do. They generally find work in their chosen field, no matter what it would be. As they are specialized with four or more years of education pertaining to that field, they can usually rest assured that their pay will be livable, their job will be secure (especially for in demand fields such as engineering, computers, geological, etc), and their will always be options to network in their "niche".
Option 3 person pertains to a good amount of people on BHW. They didn't go to college, and instead chose to break out from Option 1 and forge their own path. More power to them. They possess the entrepreneurial spirit, and hopefully are aware that the crash rate for IM and other fields is fast and unforgiving. You can be making $10K a month and have all your income sources dry up overnight, and the more you know, the safer you will be. And of course, the higher the risk, the higher the reward, and the higher the stress. It is rare that someone in this section will break through $$$$ into $$$$$. But again, their are outliers.
Option 4 person went to college, is specialized in their field, and has the entrepreneurial spirit to try and make it in IM. They have the ability to take their technical experience and turn it into productivity that people in other options cannot. Sometimes a degree is useless in the IM/business world. Mine sure has been. But the knowledge learned, experiences taken, and connections made it worthwhile, and ten times out of ten, two 99% identical resumes where one person has a degree and the other doesn't will result in the degree-holder getting the job.
Do you fit this mold, or are you an outlier? Think hard. Are you really, or are you just telling yourself you are? Are you an Option 3 who really is an Option 1 and needs to shoot for Option 2? Are you an Option 2 thinking you can be an Option 4, but have been fucking around for three years and still don't have a starting point?
To finalize, the items we can all hopefully agree on:
1) Nothing lasts forever. Nothing is guaranteed.
2) People in all four options are exposed to risk.
3) Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of what works best.
4) What works best for some will NOT work best for others.
5) Clear dreams lead to discipline. Discipline leads to productivity. Productivity leads to organization. Organization leads to implementation. Implementation leads to profitability. Profitability leads to expansion. Expansion leads to delegation. Delegation leads to lower stress. Lower stress leads to clear dreams. Lather, rinse, and repeat.
Don't ever sell yourself short. PUT A MONETARY VALUE ON YOUR TIME. I've said this at least 20 times to different people in this online sewer. What are you worth per hour? Seven years ago I was an Option 1, setting my personal worth at $10 an hour and working in a sandwich shop, but I had clear dreams. Five years ago when I joined this site I was an Option 2, sitting in classrooms knowing I didn't want to do what I was doing.
Now I'm an Option 4, a four year degree holder with a dozen income streams and a six figure income, and I value my time at $100 an hour. Writing this cost me $25. And if it wakes one person up, to me it was worth every penny. No strings attached. No email sign up form. No links. No bullshit. No guru. Just speaking from the heart, and speaking from too much experience in these 25 short, sweet years on earth.
All the best forever,
To add to this, here is a response I put in a thread that came up with this EXACT SAME CONCEPT ten days ago:
Get a degree in a field that is a good mix of what you are passionate and what people actually are looking for. My degree is in the business field. I have two minors also in the business field. I'm going to be starting my MBA soon as well. I graduated in May 2012, so over four and a half years ago. I went to a public state school, but it was smaller (around 10,000 total students), and the classes were MUCH smaller (my average class size was probably 15). I was never taught by a TA, always the professor themselves. They were always available for questions, jokes, stories, tips, and tricks. I remain friends and contacts with an incredible number of them to this day.
Classmates as well. One of my close classmates is a multimillionaire. He tossed me the contact information of a friend of his needing reputation management a little while back. Two weeks later, after exchanging two emails, since I was close with his friend (the multimillionaire classmate), this contact hired me to fix his reputation. That was an extra $15k in my pocket last year.
Another classmate I worked on several projects with in a finance class works as a successful broker. He gives me tips on playing the market, and in return I give him tips on marketing and SEO for his business.
I barely remember shit from my classes. But I sure do utilize the contacts I made. If you live in the US and did well in high school, scholarships are a dream. I graduated with zero student loan debt because I spent the majority of my senior year of high school churning out scholarship applications. Nonprofits and sponsors were legitimately handing me checks for $1,000+ as an 18 year old. My scholarship totals were higher than my tuition and room and board costs were, so I ended up getting paid the extra, cash money. I was getting paid to go to school.
I lived on campus all four years, too. That was a wonderful experience. The convenience of not having to clean a large apartment or pay rent allowed me to focus on building businesses and relationships. I highly recommend that as well.
Scholarships, smaller schools, living on campus. That is how you make college worth it.
Honestly, this entire thing depends on your skill set. If you're a coder, a talented marketer, or a strong designer, sure go for it, but don't be mad if you fail later on and have nothing to rely on.
Some people say that having a degree to fall back on is setting yourself up for failure and I feel like that's ridiculous. I would say that you should graduate, so you at least have some education if things go south.
True wisdom here. Time is the most important thing
Well, having the right connection is of extreme importance. In my city, I study in what is considered the most expensive and best school and I've been there for the past 12 years. Currently, I have so many connections and each one of them proves to be useful each and every single day. It's not the education in the school that's important, but the people you meet there
This is really the best reason to go to higher education. For the networking possibilities. You will meet your peers and these people can energize you when you work together and become friends. Working alone on internet projects is pretty sad after awhile.
However you can still accomplish this kind of thing without huge debt, depending on how big your classroom, how full it is, and or depending on the professor.
There's a thing called ghosting college classes, where you just partake in classes you're interested in. Steve Jobs actually did this himself, he would go to many different classes that he wasn't enrolled in and he would just sit down and listen to the lectures. I've read quite a bit about the subject and some professors you can outright ask if they wouldn't mind if you participated in the class without being enrolled. Or you can always just play it safe and stick to the background. In the larger classes professors do not have the energy to recognize everyone and you could "ghost" in the background easily. You wont get graded and you won't get to take tests obviously.
Yet you can still network, still be in a learning / inspiring environment without paying for the expensive college degrees.
I have wanted to do it for awhile, just to flirt with some college cuties and make some business/programming friends.
Are you going to struggle with the lessons/learning?
If you aren't going to cope, then leave and get a job and start earning money to invest in your IM career.
If you can handle the studying in then got to College and work on IM part time.
Nobody knows what's best for you, only you can judge that, but College isn't all about studying, it is also about networking and meeting people that might be useful in the future.
I agree with you that it isn't worth it - check out Peter Schiff - he went around somewhere in the US interviewing bar staff and waiters and they all had degrees - the jobs aren't there generally.
However, it isn't about what I think or you think, it's about what the sheeple think, and if you don't have some kind of qualifications you have zero chance of getting anything but a dead end, low paid job - so you'd better stick with it and at least then you have a safety net under you.
I stuck out 4 years of electronic engineering just to get the qualification - haven't used it for over 10 years now because I hated it - but at least I have a good solid qualification if I need it.
That's not true, if you want a STEM job you need to go to college. More than likely all of those people he interviewed got liberal arts degrees and they went into debt learning stuff the library could have taught them. Writing, womens studies, psychology, history, etc.
The risk management side of me says to finish school, it's the only free school you will receive (generally), might as well take it.
Wel i nevur wen skool an it did mee no arm.
No, they had degrees in everything you could think of including engineering.
Separate names with a comma.