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Dropping 50 places

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by drumltd, Jan 21, 2009.

  1. drumltd

    drumltd Regular Member

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    Okay I have a domain, that was doing reasonably well, untill a couple of months ago, it used rank for "xxxx place name" with 16000 place names, and always be in the top 2/3 in google except in the big cities.

    However a couple of months ago, every single page dropped about 50 places in google.

    Anybody any ideas how I can get the 16000 back ranking again?
     
  2. skyfox

    skyfox Junior Member

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    Google may have updated their PR rankings (think they only do that every couple of months or so, correct me if I'm wrong?) which may have caused it to slide...

    How long was it doing reasonably well for? I've had sites do similar and the only way back was just to slog it out getting more backlinks etc..
     
  3. Steb

    Steb Registered Member

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    could have been a +50 penalty...did you do anything dodgy back then?
     
  4. inkaholic76

    inkaholic76 Newbie

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    ya you probably got hit with some kind of penalty, i have seen -60,-90, complete delisting and many more penalties recently.
     
  5. drumltd

    drumltd Regular Member

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    Didn't do anything dodgy that I knew of, the pages were building rank over approx 6 months, then sudden drop.

    I did the PR check thing that was posted round here somewhere where you got a different PR if it had a penalty, and that came back as PR7 which I believe is all clear.

    interesting one is if you do a search on domain name with quotes in google, you get 26500 results

    "link:domain gives 3 Results"

    google webmaster thingy gives 700 backlinks

    yahoo site explorer gives 853 backlinks

    I wonder why the Link: thing in google is so low??
     
  6. bluemagic

    bluemagic Regular Member

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    Google doesn't like showing all the links, even if their "real" database has all the real links showing.

    They do this because they don't want people analyzing competitor's backlinks fully so that you can never figure out the whole puzzle of the linking aspect of ranking in google.
     
  7. drumltd

    drumltd Regular Member

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    If you've had a 50+ penalty or similar is there anyway of finding out for sure? What's the best thing to do if you have?
     
  8. drumltd

    drumltd Regular Member

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    I'm now convinced these pages have had a slap down, so how do I find our what I've done, and how do I swerve the penalty?
     
  9. TheWicker

    TheWicker Power Member

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    You will never know FOR SURE what caused the penalty, but you may guess. Once you find out the factor that caused your penalty, remove it.

    It could be onpage or even offpage. Contrary to the popular belief that links can't hurt you, they can. They can not BAN you, but they can penalize you (-50, -60, -90, -950...). So what this means is that a competitor could indeed hurt your SERPs.

    There are enough traces and evidences on the internet to prove this negative effect that links can do. For example, if you search around google groups a little you will see a small business owner who got penalized because he bought wordpress footer links (remember, a competitor could do the same and point it to your website). He was in top 5 spots for his main keyword and was living of his website. I believe his website had something to do with garden furniture, I can't remember the link right now.

    To make a long story short, the business owner then started contacting all the other webmasters to remove those footer links that were inserted into a wordpress theme. After he had done this he requested a reinclusion, and then after a few weeks he got his rankings back.

    That means that you can be penalized for OVER optimizing a single keyword. Example, if you have 1000 links to your website (say www.myinkjetprinters.com) and all the anchors say "Inkjet printers" it will be unnatural. Therefor you need to diversify your anchors and also give some sort of a buffer ("buy inkjet printers", "inkjet for printers", "inkjet printers for sale", you get the idea). And also link to your internal pages. Do this and you have a smaller chance of being penalized. I say smaller chance, because you can never know what google will do. One day google stayed up in the wrong foot and decided to completely eliminate all the traffic I was receiving to one website. This was a small completely white hat website that was earning around $20 adsense bucks per day. It took around 9 months for google to give the traffic back to my website. I wasn't doing anything with the website actually, except adding content.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2009
  10. drumltd

    drumltd Regular Member

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    What would happen, if I rejigged the content (to avoid duplicate content) then put it up under a different domain?
     
  11. TheWicker

    TheWicker Power Member

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    If you mean if you're still penalized then, you're not. You start from scratch. New domain, new content means new rankings.
     
  12. dumdum4gumgum

    dumdum4gumgum Power Member

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    damns da googles
     
  13. drumltd

    drumltd Regular Member

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    How much do you think I'll need to change? If I just reword the content do we think that will be enough, if I keep the same layouts?
     
  14. TheWicker

    TheWicker Power Member

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    There is really no exact percentage that would guarantee the uniqueness of your article, because as you know the exact algorithm of google is unknown to the public. You have online tools such as copyscape that give you an approximate number, but ultimately the uniqueness of your article is not that important, IF you can outrank the previous authority of your website. A duplicate content penalty does not exist. There is only the main index and the supplemental index. And if there are many duplicate pages, the one with the most authority will be displayed in the main index.

    I do however recommend you rewrite the articles, since it may take you a while before you can outrank your previous domain authority.
     
  15. dangregory

    dangregory Registered Member

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    That sucks, man. Sorry to hear you're having so many problems, especially if you didn't do anything too black or gray. Weird. There was a page rank update at the end of December. I noticed sites I hadn't bothered to update for a long time lost rank, but a new site of mine just launched in October gained a page rank of 5 on Google's first update post launch of that site. Crazy! But I was aggressively seeking som edu and high quality (PR 6, 7) forum backlinks. Nothing blackhat really but being really strategic in how I got links. And I also didn't build thousands of links - more like hundreds.

    Google is getting so picky lately, I don't know what they want out of a site now.

    Oh, another factor - do you have any paid links (text links) on your site? One of mine that had a few sections of paid links discreetly at the bottom of some high quality content pages went from a pr4 to pr0 because of text links.

    Dan
     
  16. nasal

    nasal Registered Member

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    The same happened to me because of paid links, dropped from PR3 to PR0.. I removed those links and yesterday asked for the recheck or how do they call it and today my domain is back on PR3..

    If you've got everything right, go to the webmaster panel in google and use that link on the right, write that there's nothing wrong and if they can check your domain again.
     
  17. drumltd

    drumltd Regular Member

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    One of things I wondered if it caused, the problem, is there are 16000 location based pages, with very similar content, but with a different google map, and different location info.

    I'm wondering if these were responsible for 50+ penalty, and if this is the case, what should I do in the new site to avoid the penalty. The pages are important and are big part of the site.

    I'm wondering about taking the key paragraphs on these pages, and presenting them to bots with the words in a random order, I can't realistically write 16000 location specific pages, so doing this, help to distinguish the pages.
     
  18. v7web

    v7web Registered Member

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    I just got a -50 place slap on all of my keywords (around 1200 keywords that were all within top 20) now the traffic that I had (around 5000 unique per day) has disappeared over night. The site hasn't disappeared from the index it has just been demoted on every keyword, I have had this site for 4 years and never seen anything like this, the only thing I did priior to the slap was use SENukeX and run a few nukes.