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Do people here agree with the Rich Dad Poor Dad principles?

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by stang1101, Mar 12, 2011.

  1. stang1101

    stang1101 Junior Member

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    I have to say being a college sophomore myself as of late I have been intensely struggling with what my beliefs are exactly on my education and the university social norm in todays society. The more I think about how the colleges work these days, it seems its a huge conspiracy rip off. I mean unless your going to be a doctor or something thats highly skilled a college education doesn't mean jack shit and in todays economy definitely doesn't guarantee financial success. I've been realizing the only way your really going to get into the wealthy status is being an entrepreneur of some kind.

    And what really ticks me off is I have professors who think they have control over my life, one said in her syllabus "do NOT add me on facebook, I WILL delete you." Do you think if Zuckerberg was her student she would say that to him?
    You see all the greatest entrepreneurs in the world that are guess what, COLLEGE DROPOUTS.
    And I have an organic chemistry teacher who's an even worse power head that thinks mixing chemicals determines your financial status in this life LOL.

    The way I see it is its your VALUE to this capitalist economy that determines what you make, not what chemicals you can mix or how many dates you know in history. Thats why a janitor makes $8/hour and a NBA player makes $8 million/year

    I guess I'm kind of ranting here, but I stumbled upon this Kiyosaki's stuff yesterday and its like everything hes saying is what I've been feeling and didn't even realize it. But whats ironic is he has a huge number of critics, so i'm just wondering what bhw take is on this guy...


    [youtube]ALymGxpyi6M[/youtube]
     
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  2. Mynarky

    Mynarky Registered Member

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    Robert Kiyosaki is a hack, he claimed to make millions in real estate yet when he started his motivational BS he only owned one ratty home in Arizona. He routinely plugs pyramid schemes and lots of his advice in his book is stupid and/or illegal. He is a douche. Tim Ferris might be more up your alley. He is the author of the Four Hour Work Week which is about developing your ability to delegate and outsource business functions to maximize time.
     
  3. Mynarky

    Mynarky Registered Member

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    By the way this is a bullshit statement, ALL of the entrepeneurs? No many of them graduated.


    By the way Rich Dad Poor Dad is supposed to be the story of his life growing up. Guess what, Rich Dad never existed, he admitted that after getting grillled on a pundit show. The book itself is largely fiction told as non-fiction.
     
  4. stang1101

    stang1101 Junior Member

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    That may be true, but if you look strictly at his advice without analyzing his background I think the advice itself has a lot for validity regardless if he is a scam or not.
     
  5. Autumn

    Autumn Elite Member

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    Higher education isn't supposed to be vocational training. University teaches you how to learn and how to think to a higher level than your average less educated person.

    Actually learning practical skills to make money is relatively easy if you already have a developed brain. Gaining a balanced and broad view of the world from studying great thinkers is of much greater value.

    That's not to say that you can't make it if you don't have a college education - obviously you can if you are talented, hard working and have at least a basic level of education to start with. But those people are the exception, not the rule. Average incomes for college graduates are substantially higher than for their non-graduating peers.
     
  6. zebrahat

    zebrahat Elite Member

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    Sure, that's why billionaires like DONALD TRUMP have teamed up him in writing books, or why major mutual fund managers like John Bogle publically agree with Kiyosaki, riiiight. That's quite a power track record for a mere hack/douche. He routinely supports publically traded network marketing companies, not "pyramids," there is a difference. And if you're flipping houses and companies, you don't have to hold property, by definition.

    Kiyosaki's career has had ups and downs as he learned his lessons, like any other investment guru. His success path is much more honest and specific compared to other gurus like Warren Buffet, who got lucky with the main company he bet the farm on. If you don't like the general investment concepts and framework Kiyosaki emphasizes, try another guru, but don't just vaguely call teaching you disagree with "illegal" or stupid, at least until you've made at least a good fraction of his money.
     
  7. eBayMafia

    eBayMafia BANNED BANNED

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    I don't like playing this card, but his background plays a HUGE role before giving advice and telling people to invest long term into Real Estate.

    I own several rental properties and a lot of farm land in South East Iowa. (all of which I can prove, unlike that guy.)

    Am I raking in the dough? Nope. You know who is? The government.

    You can read his books and make you feel good and make you feel like if you put your nose to the grindstone then you can cement yourself a nice financial future for you and your family... but that's all it does. There is no real advice. Truth is, people who make close to 6 figures a year know how manage money to some extent. Not all, but most. Some book he has of fictional people thanking him for making them rich was a crock of shit. What kind of financial demographics was the books really aimed at? People who made less than $24,000 a year- people who can not afford to invest in anything unless they already acquired a property or two. He says to be a risk taker like 100 times... you don't take risks in getting on a mortgage for a $70,000 home. (this is what lead to so many foreclosed homes now).

    If you think people like this guy are "alright" then you probably Love WarriorForum. The guy got rich pitching seminars and selling books and board games, not by investing in businesses and real estate like he is teaching.

    I remember seeing a youtube video where he was on PBS saying investing in mutual funds was pointless. Yet... he suggests investing in property. Fucking mind boggling.

    Also, I've seen 100 people mention this guy and people jump to defend him and it turns into a "who has more money" contest. The supporters aren't the guys with the money.

    If this guy came out recently, FTC would have him shitting out dollar bills.
     
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  8. TNphoneman

    TNphoneman Senior Member

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    Your drive is what will set you apart. If you have the drive to do something then you learn how to do it, either with school or hard knocks. 4 years ago I could not build a web site let alone rank it, now I can do both and I will be 43 this year and did not go to college. Most of the success stories you hear about are great but what you never hear about is the 2 dozen failures before that success.

    Just learn what you need in school and disregard all the political bs on either side and make up your own mind. I think what you are seeing is political thinking that is contrary to your thinking that is causing the confusion. No I am not talking about Republican and Democrat so don't start there. I am talking about beliefs. What your values are and what you perceive their values to be. Some of them can be very pushy when it comes to this, you either have to think like they do or you are an idiot. You are starting to push back against this and good for you because this world does not need clones, it needs individuals with different visions.

    Have you ever thought that you wished you could do something over again? Well failure is that opportunity, you get to start over with new found knowledge (unless you are thick headed). Most success comes from a string of failures.

    It also depends on what chemicals you mix,,,, There are people mixing chemicals all that time that make good money but to me their value is zilch because the lab they work in is a meth lab.:eek:

    The key to moving ahead your ENTIRE life is to never quit learning.(it also staves off alzheimers) The minute you think you know it all then you are doomed. You know the kind of people that I am talking about. Keep up the school and keep learning, it is a small sacrifice to pay now, enjoy it while you are young because you only get this chance once.

    Read everything you can but don't believe everything you read.

    I have read some of the Rich Dad books and there are some good points in there that you might not have understood if written in a different context. I really liked the biography on Sam Walton and JW Marriott. I don't think I will read the Trump books though. I am the kind of person that will read a book in 1-2 days at the most so I get to read a lot.

    Good luck to you.
     
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  9. thetvnun

    thetvnun Power Member

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    the college degree holder of 10 years ago merely had to compete in a local market; the graduate of today is competing in a global market with people happy to work for 5 an hour. the graduate of tomorrow is even more screwed. rich dad poor dad guy should be an inspiration to us all even as we debate whether his methods were white hat or blackhat. salescopy made him who he is, you can outsource coding, seo and dis noobs who cant ftp a wordpress theme - the only thing that matters is sales copy - he did it, we can to.
     
  10. Mynarky

    Mynarky Registered Member

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    Billionaires LIKE Donald Trump, only Donald Trump, who by the way isn't technically a billionaire, he is in massive debt. By the way pyramid schemes and network marketing schemes are fundamentally the same thing, they just add a product to make it look better. For a guy who has filed bankruptcy more than once he isn't the best financial guru either.

    Teaching I disagree with as illegal, he clearly claims things you can write off as business expenses in his book that would get you busted in a heartbeat. His book is fiction yet he claims those talks he had with his "rich dad" are real. Thats called fraud or atleast misrepresentation.

    PS he only owned that home in Arizona, that's it no flipping. And since the real estate crash he's now telling average middle class people that day trading is the answer. Way to change your mind after your prior advice fails.

    Yet again, Tim Ferris is quite legitimate, and very pragmatic
     
  11. Monrox

    Monrox Power Member

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    I am not trading my near future college degree for a "not having a degree". But yeah, those who go to college believing it will 100% secure them a great job without further effort are wrong.
     
  12. brent360

    brent360 Junior Member

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    No matter how you want to cut the cake, this guy and guys like him are frauds to me. He makes his money selling schemes and dreams, but doesn't add value to anyone's life beyond "motivation". If that's how he marketed everything--not claiming that everything was "real"--it would all be fine by me... but then his stuff wouldn't motivate anyone, would it?
     
  13. seoguru13

    seoguru13 Senior Member

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    Adding my perspective to this discussion, I personally have been quite influenced with his books, especially the Cashflow quadrant, which is a less spoken but far better book than Rich Dad, Poor Dad. In fact, most of his suggestions about leveraging assets to buy newer assets etc, work better in economies with high growth rates than with economies with stagnant or low or modest growth like USA currently.

    However, I'll be honest, I read his books when I was running in a network marketing business. Since i have been out of it for the past 5 years, some ideas seem paltry and laughable, but the ideas in the cashflow quadrant remain useful.
     
  14. J1218

    J1218 Power Member

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    So are you tryin to say people can ONLY become educated by going to University? Education can just as easily come by being self-taught. Just because you go to some school for X amount of years and pay them tens of thousands of dollars and graduate with a piece of paper doesn't automatically make you more educated than the guy who is self-taught and is always educating himself.

    This statement applies to people who actually want to work at a job for the rest of their lives. It doesn't even remotely apply to entrepreneurs. When people do these "studies" for the average income of a college graduate vs a non-college graduate, they are looking at people with jobs working for others, not those that are running their own businesses and working for themselves.

    Why is it that the majority of people with college degrees end up working in a field that has nothing to do with their degree? At the same time, the unemployment rate in the US is like 10%. That's 1 out of every 10 people without a job, and I bet a lot of them have degrees too. How is that secure? Without a job your salary is $0, even the guy mopping floors without a degree is makin more than that.

    I never went to a day of college in my life, and yet I make more than the average person with a degree does. How? I am self-educated and constantly hammer on my craft every single day to get better at it. I don't need to know the exact dates of the Civil War and whatever else they teach you in college to earn a good living and be successful working for myself.

    Oh, and I'm only 23. While most people my age are coming out of college $50,000 in debt or whatever the hell it costs these days, I have no debt at all. While everyone else is complaining about how they can't find a job or how they hate their job, us entrepreneurs don't have that problem.

    @ the OP: If you really feel that college is not for you, and you know you will never use that degree you end up getting, then you may wanna think about not even finishing and pursue IM (or whatever other business ventures interest you) instead. You will be saving yourself a lot of time and money.

    I honestly felt the same way you did back when I was getting out of high school, which is why I decided to not bother with college.

    Now I know a lot of people are going to disagree with me and say that you should "have something to fall back on in case IM doesn't work out", but that's why you need to decide for yourself BEFORE you make the decision of dropping out if you are going to pursue being an entrepreneur as hard as you have to until you succeed.

    One of the best quotes I've heard is "I don't have a Plan B because it distracts me from Plan A." Give yourself no other option but to succeed and you have no choice. From what I've observed, not everyone is cut out to be an entrepreneur. It takes a hell of a lot of time and dedication and you will probably have a lot of failures before you start to see any real money. You need to be OK with that and understand it going in.

    Many of them didn't. Look at some of the names on this list, these are some of the most successful people of all time and they didn't finish college and some didn't even finish high school: http://www.youngentrepreneur.com/blog/100-top-entrepreneurs-who-succeeded-without-a-college-degree/
     
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  15. adm0001

    adm0001 Registered Member

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    You need a degree, period. Masters or higher, and from the most privileged school that you can attend. It's a matter of who your classmates are. I don't think this needs further elaboration.
     
  16. Autumn

    Autumn Elite Member

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    All that stuff is true but once again you are talking about exceptions. Very very few pursue self learning in any meaningful manner. Even if you just do the bare minimum to pass at university you will come out of it a better person, and have the advantage of more structured mental schemas and thinking processes than the average person who hasn't had that experience.

    If you think that university is about memorizing dates and rote learning then you have a very skewed idea of what higher learning is about, and with all due respect you're not actually talking about what I'm talking about - which is learning how to learn and how to think. Like I said, university is not learning vocational training that teaches you how to make money. That is what short courses, on the job training or a technical college is for. University is about learning reasoning and problem solving skills that last a life time. However, the American education system outside the Ivy League is considered by the rest of the developed world to be pretty shit, so I can see why you might have the opinion that you do.

    I haven't had a job since I managed a skateboard shop while I was at uni, 10 years ago. I've been full time working on the internet since then. I will probably never have a proper job again if I can help it. But I use and value the critical skills that uni gave me daily.

    When I was at secondary school, I did 5 years of Latin. Can I remember any of it? Hardly a thing. But the mental discipline and learning systems it wired into my brain help me every single day in a range of areas from programming to speaking foreign languages. Like many people who learn Latin, I am substantially better with languages than non-Latin students. Not all learning has to be 100% practical to be enormously useful in real life.

    And that degree holders statistically earn more on average than their non degree holding brethren is just a cold hard fact that has been reported time and time again. Are there plenty of entrepreneurs who make tons of money and never finished college? Of course. But for every one of those, there are probably a thousand who failed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2011
  17. Monrox

    Monrox Power Member

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    J1218, first get a degree then try to decide whether it was worth it. You can't make a qualified statement about something you have not tried. This is not to put you down but to help you in your arguments. I've seen many without a degree flaming college but have not seen many with a degree that are feeling sorry for going to college. In short, you can't know what you're missing unless you weren't missing it at some point.

    Also, you make more than the average person with a degree... but you don't make more than the best earners with a degree.

    So even when you are the good, college can still make you better :D

    On a more down to earth note, if I need a janitor I will rather pick a graduate over another applicant if all other factors are the same (like physical fitness etc). Currently you can see this in India and some other countries; if you don't have a degree, you can't get that call center job. With the economy getting more stagnant each day, we will need every single advantage to beat the hordes of unemployed people applying for the same job.

    And finally, higher education means 2 things, lots of memorizing AND skills how to get further knowledge. Like for example after a course in statistics. You won't learn exactly how to split test CPA offers but you'll learn there are many approaches of doing it, each with advantages and disadvantages and if you don't account for them you get skewed results.

    I like to think of it as the documentation to some program. Sure you can blindly click your way through PhotoShop but patiently reading the manual can potentially increase your 'goodness' by several magnitudes. And the word 'potentially' is the key, nothing is guaranteed after graduation, this isn't high school.
     
  18. J1218

    J1218 Power Member

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    I will agree with you there. Most people don't have what it takes to self-teach themselves. That's why I told the OP he needs to be damn sure that being an entrepreneur and going after IM is what he wants to do with his life before he makes any decisions. If he's not the type of person that's self-sufficient, then dropping out may not be the best thing for him.

    I see where you're coming from with the idea that college teaches you how to learn and how to think. But do you not agree that you're getting the same experience working for yourself, except you're just not in a classroom environment? Every day I learn something new or have to think really hard about how to solve a certain problem, and I'm not in a classroom. I get this experience from working on my IM business or reading books, forums, blogs, and so on.

    My opinion is that when you're in a structured learning environment like a classroom, you don't have to think as critically and as outside of the box as when you're self-taught. If you have a problem, the answer is right there in the book or you can go to your professor for help. Not to mention that the average person does the bare minimum and just tries to get through their classes however they can. They will cheat off someone else's work or half-ass it enough to pass. If you use that same line of thinking as an entrepreneur, you're sure to fail.

    Again, these statistics are skewed. When they take these stats, they are looking at the average person. The average person is NOT an entrepreneur and is most likely someone just working at a job for someone else. If you grab 100 people for a study like this, I'd bet 99 of them are your typical 9-5 workers and maybe 1 is in business for themselves.

    In order to get more concrete data, they would have to split their study up into 2 separate groups of people: 1. Entrepreneurs that work for themselves and run their own businesses, and 2. The average person working at a job for someone else. That way we can see if statistically entrepreneurs with degrees make more than entrepreneurs without degrees.



    True. Without having been there myself I can admit that I don't know exactly what I missed. On the other hand, I know tons of people who did go to college or still go, so I do have an idea of what goes on. For most people college is just a $50,000 party where you come out with a piece of paper saying you finished and a shitload of debt.

    First, you can't assume you know how much I make. Are there people out there that make more than I do that have degrees? Sure there are. But I have tons of freedom that a lot of those people don't and I can still lead a pretty comfortable lifestyle. I don't have a job that I need to report to every day or a boss telling me what to do. I wouldn't trade that for anything that a typical career with a degree could offer me.

    Again, you're referring to people who are looking for jobs. I could care less about how I look to a potential employer because I don't plan on going out there and searching for a job working for someone else. I don't need any sort of formal qualifications to work for myself.

    The OP isn't asking the question that he is because he wants to be employed by someone else the rest of his life. He's asking it because he's considering pursuing entrepreneurship full-time.

    If the question was "I want to get a good job with a good company that has nice benefits and room for growth. Should I stay in college or drop out?", then obviously the answer would be to stay in college. But that's not what he's asking.

    Just like I mentioned to Autumn above, I agree that the memorizing and learning skills may help, but you can also teach yourself all of this on your own without sitting in a classroom.

    You want to get better at split-testing CPA offers? Then go and split-test some CPA offers and keep doing it until you figure out what works.

    Want more ideas? Then come here to BHW and read in the CPA section of the forum.

    Got a question? Post it in the forum and let others who are more knowledgeable than you answer it.

    I think you're misconstruing what I'm saying all together. I'm not by any means saying education itself is worthless. That would be foolish if I said that. I'm just saying that you don't necessarily have to go to a college and be in a classroom setting to learn the skills to succeed as an entrepreneur.

    There are many types of education and college is just one of them.
     
  19. GreyWolf

    GreyWolf Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    Yeah, most of the stuff in Rich Dad, Poor Dad is motivational guru stuff presented as life experiences, but it's mostly BS that Robert Kiyosaki made up.


    The one good thing that I did take from him though is the idea of wealth vs riches. Basically it's the idea that just the actual dollar amount of you're assets might be enough for you to be considered "rich", but that doesn't necessarily mean you're "wealthy".
    • Rich means having much more money than most other people.
    • Wealthy means having enough money to do whatever you want, and also the time available to do it.
    How rich you need to be in order to also be considered wealthy really just depends on what kind of things you really want to do.

    Someone that makes millions per year might be considered rich, but if he has to be constantly working, he's tied to the job and can't really take time off to do things he really wants to do then he isn't really wealthy.

    On the other hand, someone who only makes a hundred thousand a year, but he's able to do it without being tied down to his work then he might not be considered as rich as the first guy, but he's actually the wealthy one.

    Of everything I ever heard from Robert Kiyosaki, that definition of the difference between "rich" and "wealthy" is the one thing that stuck in my mind.
     
  20. luiza

    luiza Junior Member

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    Absolutely agree with the principles 100%.

    An asset is something that brings in money and you can sell it if you want.
    You want to spend your time creating assets.

    A job is exchanging hours for money and you can't scale it up or sell it.

    Btw Kiosaki's "rich dad" role model was Keith Cunningham.
     
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