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Could you guys explain why bitcoins are meant to be more anonymous?

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by PineappleCrush, May 19, 2016.

  1. PineappleCrush

    PineappleCrush Regular Member

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    Ive been reading up on it and plan to give it a go however I don't yet see why it is more anonymous? if your transactions are broadcast like it says on their website that it is more transparent.

    Is it just because there is no name and address immediately shown?

    or just that how much or how little anonymyty you have is more in your control. vs with a bank they always want tons of your personal info before doing business with them.

    I mean how is it more or less anonymous than say paypal. Still trying to get my head around how it works. Though I think I need to set up and try it a little before really getting an idea though Id like a clearer basic idea before starting out :)
     
  2. royserpa

    royserpa Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Less info shared > More freedom to do stuff, whether or not is good for everyone
     
  3. bartosimpsonio

    bartosimpsonio Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    They're only "more anonymous" for as long as no fiat currency is involved. Trading fiat -> bitcoin -> fiat is still regulated.

    As long as you're trading 100% in Bitcoin and never entered any bank details into a Bitcoin transaction, it is 100% anonymous.
     
  4. Noah Hawryshko

    Noah Hawryshko Senior Member

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    As far as I know, BitCoin can be and is anonymous if you do the following:

    1. Use a BitCoin tumbler(s). It's better to use multiple, trusted ones. Never put all your eggs in one basket because exit scams occur all the time on the dark web.

    2. Don't have a large amount of money in any wallet at any given time ($5,000.00+). To do this, you can create a new wallet every time you receive money. Alternatively, you can create a new wallet after you hold a set amount of money in your current wallet. This is better for large-scale purchases.

    3. Don't transfer large amounts of money ($5,000.00+) through your BitCoin tumbler(s) from either one source or at one time.

    4. Tumble all your purchases and sales through your BitCoin tumbler(s) and then into fresh wallets.

    To buy BitCoins initially, you can use LocalBitcoins to purchase them in person from a distributor near you. If you don't give the person that you're meeting any identifiable information and tumble the BitCoins afterward then you're in the clear.

    When receiving money it's not as simple because the "paper trail" is already there, but if you're paranoid you can use multiple tumblers before converting your BitCoins into your local currency. This will incur extra expenses, however.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2016
  5. Noah Hawryshko

    Noah Hawryshko Senior Member

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    It is true that the blockchain allows any person to access every BitCoin transaction source, amount, and destination. It is a common misconception that this information breaks anonymity, however. As counterintuitive as it may sound, you can still anonymize BitCoins using BitCoin tumblers.

    Let me use an analogy to describe a BitCoin tumbler: Imagine that there exists a giant pile of money, say around $100,000,000, and people are allowed to take as much money from this pile as they've previously put in beforehand. If the pile always consists of around $100,000,000 and people are constantly putting in and taking out everything from $1 to $10,000 on a regular basis, your money get mixed up with everyone else's. Here's where the magic of anonymity happens. Although you can easily watch a person but $1,000 dollars into the money pile, you can't tell what happened to the money afterward.

    This is akin to knowing through the block chain that a certain wallet x deposited a certain number of BitCoins y into a BitCoin tumbler z. Though you know x, y, and z, you can't tell where the money goes after that. This is because BitCoin tumblers aren't instantaneous and many "drip" funds for this very reason. You can never track the original BitCoins that were put into the tumbler by wallet x because of the many thousand places that it could have gone after that. This is because thousands of others are transferring BitCoins into the tumbler and "dripping" them out the other side slowly, which makes for many input and output sources.

    There is no way to derive the final source of the funds barring a zero-day exploit, as long as you're tumbling an amount exponentially less than the tumbler wallets themselves. The most you can do is fingerprint or demographize the BitCoin transaction to the subset of every person using the tumbler in the last week or so.
     
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  6. THECORE1337

    THECORE1337 Junior Member

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    It's anonymous if you do it right. You can BitLaudry services on the deepweb. Use Tor and start on the hidden wiki. I will admit .. difficult to do but if you need to the ability is there.
     
  7. eelajt

    eelajt Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    The anonymity of Bitcoin depends on how YOU use it. It is not hidden, with a public blockchain, but keeping your bitcoin finances separate from your identity makes it anonymous. As stated, you can use tumblrs that "laundry" the coins (atleast makes any tracing purely circumstancial guesswork) or you can use a fake identity/spoofed ip to hide, change the bitcoin for cash via Localbitcoin to eliminate bank traces.
     
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  8. okazaki

    okazaki Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    If no one find the id of the cyber theft of 5 million dollars bitcoin from Bitstamp then YES the bitcoin is still very anonymous..
     
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  9. TimeWarped

    TimeWarped Junior Member

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    He's right you know
     
  10. Noah Hawryshko

    Noah Hawryshko Senior Member

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    Like I said, it doesn't work with amounts of money like that.
     
  11. BreaknBrix

    BreaknBrix Power Member

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    Bitcoin was the natural evolution of the "virtual war on drugs". Along with the DEA doing what they do best. Which is growing, evolving, expanding and improving the online drug marketplace.

    I've been ordering random shit online for 9 years now almost 10. It started with airsealed back when they were the best for anabolic powders, codeine, benzos... they sold basically everything except the harder pills & drugs. Back then all we really had was 1 forum (drugbuyers, shutdown), 1 way of paying (WU) and the high majority of transactions were overseas.

    So, the DEA being the dumb useless fucks they are.... shutdown airsealed. People on forums went crazy but soon enough airsealed was replaced by halfpricedmeds, starlite, ss4u... that forum gave rise to more pharmacies selling pills at better prices. But STILL, no real hard drugs were sold other than poppies on ebay. You COULD get invited into email only outfits but people were very weary of using them back then.

    The DEA must have gotten really mad by then. Because instead of targeting another pharmacy.... they launched a direct attack on our free speech and got drugbuyers, a manmouth forum (for it's time) shut down.

    This caused a shitstorm of panic, confusion, anger, hostility, people were mad as hell. And most of the "community" remained in the dark. Then during this time "The Farmers Market" popped up through onlinepot.org. It was a really sly trick they did. They used a popular MOM promoter (till this day very popular) to start what looked like a legitimate, small MOM operation (pot).

    But their setup was so well organized and planned.... too organized for a MOM which attracted attention from the DEA right from the start. And 1 day their menu changed from pot to pot, lsd, mdma, ketamine.... they started a private invite only forum..... onlinepot removed them from their site but word of mouth exploded and The Farmers Market was like a really small version of Silk Road at the time.

    I believe this was around 2008-2011 so this was right before Silk Road.

    Their main problem was... even though they encouraged people to pay with cash they still ALLOWED PAYPAL. We talked about it on the forum. What a huge security / safety threat it was but the sellers didn't seem to care. As we were having conversations about security and ordering drugs the DEA breached the invite system. Then started inviting more agents. Before we knew it the whole forum and marketplace was full of agents posing as customers.

    And I remember it like yesterday. I went to TOR to The Farmers Market, it said right on the home page "seized by the DEA".

    Then 2 weeks later my MDMA came in the mail along with a letter from the DEA which I burned.

    Even though that was a pretty big hit.... it was surprising to see like half the vendors back in business (outside the marketplace) just 2 months later.

    I can't say for sure if bitcoin founders were paying attention to The Farmers Market. But I know for a fact it was that time period in which bitcoins were invented. And it wasn't too long after the bust that people started talking about bitcoins.

    It was the same pattern repeating over and over. A small marketplace would launch. It would grow a bit but quickly reach a saturation point. Just because the internet was still young and most people didn't vibe with the idea of buying drugs online. Still, the DEA had to twist the narrative, would act like these were huge organized crime outfits... they'd bust, the market would get paranoid, vendors would scatter.... then something bigger and better would replace it THANKS TO THE DEA.

    Anyway, it wasn't too long after TFM bust and invention of the bitcoin that Silk Road was launched. It was like nothing anyones ever seen before. Incredibly well organized, huge selection, and now we had bitcoins. And then reddit came into scene which changed black market culture forever. Reddit makes drug dealers moderators. They allow people to advertise and sell hard & soft drugs all over the site.

    When you see how things have evolved.... it's just insane. Because the old drugbuyers forum served a similar purpose to what reddit now does. Except unlike reddit that forum didn't promote hard drugs, they sure as fuck didn't source any vendors for hard drugs, they didn't list menus on the site, they were very careful about how they vetted new vendors... and even though it was a sourcing site for pharmaceuticals they didn't even like people directly asking questions like "where can I get xanax." Reddit is the complete opposite. Anything and everything goes on that site. If you need to find a source for crack just go ask on reddit. Discuss the various vendors. Use bitcoin. Then most important be sure to leave a review. The world needs to know how well your crack dealer serviced you. Was he polite? Expedient? Funds transfer quick / was the product good? GREAT! Reddit is proud to help any 16 year old with half a brain find, use and get addicted to smack. It's our pleasure to serve you. It's our pleasure to take money from drug dealers so they can post ads all over our site advertising to kids.

    I'm not bashing reddit (I am a bit). But the drug culture that exists today, the popularity of PGP encryption, TAILS, linux, burner laptops, the spike in opiate use, the widespread availability of domestic drug transactions through bitcoin, USPS & FedEX, the great prices and quality.... the feedback, confidence and reassurance kids are getting every day about the best drug dealers or where to get their 99% pure fentanyl which is 50xs stronger than heroin .... CLAP CLAP DEA.
     
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  12. Noah Hawryshko

    Noah Hawryshko Senior Member

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    Copy/paste?

    How long did it take you to write that?
     
  13. PineappleCrush

    PineappleCrush Regular Member

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    Hah Ive been reading this forum long enough to know that kind of tangential rant is normal for him.

    The talk of reddit being some hidden hand is really myopic and paranoid. You speak like redddit only exists to cater to the small subset of druggies who write about drugs on there. Its like topix used to be before they closed the drug sections on there. Its just the owners didnt care about that small part of it until pressured to close it.

    Anyway reddit has nothing to do with bitcoin anonymyty :D