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Conflicting Info - Warrior Forum & Here regarding Article Marketing & Article Spinning

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by Snoogles, Aug 9, 2012.

  1. Snoogles

    Snoogles Newbie

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    Hey guys! I'm new here. I'm a web designer looking to get into internet marketing full time. I've found through google searching that many of the people on this forum seem to hate Warrior Forum. I'm just wondering the reasons? Just trying to figure out who I can go to for valuable and helpful information

    I've read much from Alexa Smith on article marketing, spinning, duplicate content vs syndicated content and all that. I'm just looking for the TRUTH (I've read many BHW members trashing Alexa saying she/he doesen't know what he/she's talking about

    My questions.

    1. I don't have any firsthand experience with link building or article marketing and was going to start looking into it more but I don't want to waste my time if article marketing is dead! What should I be focusing on (other than good quality content) for SEO in 2012? Is article marketing dead?


    2. IF article marketing is still useful (Despite the newest Google algorinthim changes) should I be spinning or do I not have to worry since its "syndicated content" I've read spinning is useless because it's not considered duplicate content if it's on a different domain...

    Thanks for any help guys!
     
  2. cloakme

    cloakme Regular Member Premium Member

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    Hey bud, I don't know were you read that if it is on a different domain it is not duplicate content but that is way off. Go pull a paragraph off of the internet and stick it into copyscape and answer your own question. Google knows what duplicate content is. If you are trying to rank something you should have unique content. If your not trying to rank it in the serps then it really doesn't matter. Try it out for yourself. Make two separate posts and try to rank them. FYI a lot of the higher quality article directories check for duplicate content and won't post your info. Spinning still works because if you do it right the search engines can't tell it is spun content. Hope it helps. By the way I just made a thread about all this and it might help you out. http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/black-hat-seo/469854-how-rank-your-website-two-months.html
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2012
  3. Snoogles

    Snoogles Newbie

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    Hey Thanks! I'll read your post. This is where I read about "duplicate content vs syndicated content" ...dangit it won't let me post the link. If you google "[h=1]"Article Marketers - Lay the Duplicate Content Myth To Rest Once and For All" you get some forum posts referencing the article.[/h]
     
  4. ja1myn

    ja1myn Senior Member

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    I hate WF because they seem to ban people for no reason. BHW is much better as far as services go as well.
     
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  5. verilix

    verilix Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    People dislike WF (or at least, the people I know), because they re-sell methods shared on BHW, make useless ebooks regarding techniques that used to work a decade ago, trying to convince people it's a "new" and "innovative" method that will make them thousands of dollars a day. People at WF don't care about sharing. BHW was built around it. You can find immense amounts of data on almost any niche, and any method, on BHW, that was, at one time or another, shared by a BHW member. People at other forums, WF and DP especially, don't give a shit, and try to make money off of it. We're a community, and we help each other out.

    Oh, most people over @ WF also have no idea what they're talking about half the time. If I didn't waste a year over there (and DP - oh god.) I'd have so much more money by now. We learn from our mistakes, though...
     
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  6. evilclown

    evilclown Senior Member

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    There is a few things here.
    1) SEO is dead. You need to look more for online marketing in general. All information on SEO is build back links and rank high. That is dead, now you have to have quality, usage and other things to rank high.

    2) Warrior Forums are nest for selling WSO that are useless. Is a drug for newbies who dream of becoming rich with online marketing. Yes, there is a good info here and there, but in general is nothing but a sales tool.

    3) BHW (even I am new registration been reading it for a while) and other similar have their own speciality, and their own rules. So you need to see witch forum helps you grow a special portion of your network.

    4) With any community, the community would be as useful as your contribution. If you are just a leecher, eventually you will notice you are just leeching of the community rather than adding. Always add value to the community you are in, share your expertise with others and others will share their expertise.

    5) Don't go crazy doing everything you see. You need to test, you need to find your own workflow. Because method 1 worked for Mr. Beans it does not mean it would work for Mr. Soup. Find your own Mojo.

    6) Read, Read, Read. DO NOT fasr read. Stop and read.

    7) You are not going to make riches overnight. You have to work this as you would work any job. Seriousness and professionalism. Even here and there you want to strangle some people :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2012
  7. skydancer

    skydancer Junior Member

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    Seo isn't "dead", just your ways of doing it are dead!
     
  8. SEOWhizz

    SEOWhizz Power Member

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    Why does WF suck?
    This and this pretty much sums it up.

    You do realize that Alexa Smith is very likely a fictional persona, don't you?
     
  9. artificial_genius

    artificial_genius Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Alexa Smith does not know what she is talking about.

    She just has a cult following on WarriorForum because her avatar is attractive and tells Warriors what they want to hear. People on WarriorForum blindly defer to her, and I've had conversations like this:

    Article marketing is alive and spinning is a great way to make it happen. Why is that? Because proper spinning makes an article appear as if it is unique. Syndication is ok, but making it look like 50 unique articles are written about your site (linking to your site) is better.

    This is not true.
     
  10. evilclown

    evilclown Senior Member

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    A good spinned article is as good as an original article. If is 65%+ unique and pass copyspace = brand new fresh article. I use TBS for this, and I have teach him how to use break lines, unordered list, etc.
     
  11. SEOWhizz

    SEOWhizz Power Member

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    Yes, agreed. All noobs should delete their BHW accounts, and give up*.
    An auto-spun article using TBS is never as good as a unique, original article. Auto spins using TBS produce unreadable articles. I manually spin and create 90%+ uniqueness.

    *
    While the rest of us carry on making money.
     
  12. Larisa

    Larisa Newbie

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    The difference is in the users that each of the forum has. If you remain long enough on both forums, you will notice that WarriorForums members (and the so called gurus) are the Info Marketers (this means, they sell information's and thats their #1 income) while BHW members..well they get their hands dirty and the info that then gets sold on WF was most likely picked up from here..without even putting into act (because they sell info..they don't get their hands dirty).

    Alexa is a classical example of: I've been told, I've read, I've seen .. but never an: I've tested this and these are the results. She is a copywriter so she wants people to pay her for each piece of content she writes and not reproduce the same content billions of ways (otherways..how would she cash in?)

    No it is not, at least I don't see it dead. It has just taken a different twist and it's not longer a just 'click of a button'

    Now I might be wrong, and would appreciate if someone corrects me on this. But G's algorithm can easily "filter" duplicate content and credit the original source (which not always happens, the credit as proven several times goes to the domain with the most authority). The spinning of contents main purpose is to decrease possible footprints and in the same time increase % of pages where the article will get published (presumably if an identical content gets distributed to 1000s of sites at some point G-bot will stop indexing the same information over and over again, hence the spinning increases the chances to get as many pages indexed possible).

    Given that you are just starting, my advise would be to test things out on your own (in a test domain is preferable rather then with your moeny site) and most importantly to focus on multiple streams of traffic and not just seo.

    Hope it makes..any sense ;)
     
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  13. kvmcable

    kvmcable Supreme Member

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    My friends know I refer to WF as the Wannabe Forum instead of Warrior Forum. Flooded with info marketers that can't even rank their own sales pages but are professed "gurus" selling products to noobs as sure-fired methods.

    The Wannabe Forum does have a few software developers over there that put together a decent product and often you can get a discount there. Aside from that it doesn't serve its audience well - IMO.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2012
  14. teeniegenie

    teeniegenie Supreme Member

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    warrior-forum2.jpg

    WARRIOR-FORUM-BAN.jpg
     
  15. evilclown

    evilclown Senior Member

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    You can't beat manual spins. But TBS would create unreadable articles if you just click spin. Each article has it's unique essence and how many words/phrases you should spin on. Many just spin using default every 3 each word and they don't even spell check after spin. A QC (Quality Control) as a must when spinning articles.

    And Yeah, SEO is dead. The basics of SEO is a standar now days, a small business owner that knows jack's about internet marketing knows about head tags, link building, on-site and off-site. Know if you really want to succeed, you need to go in deeper into website marketing where SEO is cover. I am talking about going deep into visitors behavior, A/B Testing, etc.
     
  16. evilclown

    evilclown Senior Member

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  17. Ghoast

    Ghoast Power Member

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    BHW is an online community where people share information for free.. You have to know what you want to ask or find out about or you won't find BHW helpful.

    If you are an internet marketer who basically knows what they are doing and knows about the industry in general then THIS is the site you want to be on.

    You can discuss tactics and methods with other markters - lots of people even share their own data here which can be helpful as you can sometimes see results from certain marketing techniques spread over thousands of websites (which helps you determine useful techniques).

    Mostly everything sold on blackhatworld is actually helpful in someway.. But again you HAVE to know what you are doing in the first place otherwise you don't know what you're buying or how to use it.. for example many people here offer various backlink packages (they will build specific types of backlinks to webpages you submit), if you were to order 100k Blog Comments to your website you'd probably get penalised by Googl.e very quickly, however if you know what you're doing and you order those 100K links and point them at the 10k sites that you have on the 4th tier of your linking strategy then you could get some good rankings and make some good money..

    IMO Blackhatworld is not a great place for newbies to IM(internet marketing). But then again NO WHERE is a great place for newbies to IM. Getting properly started in the IM game is one of the most labour intensive and random(at the start) proccesses in the world. Moving from the world of 'newb' to 'seasoned IMer' goes a little something like this (IMO):



    1. You have an idea that you could perhaps make money on the internet/You read somewhere that you can make money on the internet.
    2. You research making money online and you find yourself on some IM websites and blogs.
    3. You read tons of information from various 'gurus' and 'experts' on IM. You're facinated at the whole idea of making money online and wowed by the claims and stories that you hear. (THIS IS WHEN YOU'LL PROBABLY FIND YOURSELF ON THE WARRIOR FORUM)
    4. You buy some software/ebook/'lock in key' solution which you've learned is basically guaranteed to make you money.
    5. You're very excited to get started but lots of the information you read in the ebook seems like hardwork/The software you buy doesn't work exactly as you hoped but you soon lose interest and start searching for different ways to make money.
    6. Repeat steps 2 to 4. (I'd say most people never pass this step and contionusly repeat steps 2 to 4 buying crap they probably found on the Warrior Forum. Then the lose interest and give up in IM all together.)
    7. You realise that all these products and ebooks you've been buying/downloading haven't gotten you anywhere, you search elsewhere for information and find yourself in a forum where the discussion is very very different. You're confused as you thought that making money online revolved around buying some 'fix all' solution, the only thing the people on the Warrior Forum and similar sites used to talk about was the next 'big thing' which was usually some 'all in one' system that promised to make you thousands. You notice that all the discussions on these 'new' forums you've found (such as BHW) seem to talk about complex structures of websites, software which is referred to in shorthand such as SB, AMR and BMD and a whole lot of other stuff that goes straight over your head..
    8. You spend a while learning techniques and methods from these forums such as BHW, you're trying to understand the instructions whilst at the same time trying to decode the language and shorthand which is used everywhere (what the hell is PR, OBL, OCI or ROI you wonder). You notice that not once do you have to get your credit card out and pay for this information and these methods.
    9. Slowly but surely it all fits into place, you embark on your first project.
    10. From here it's really just keeping up with the industry and making sure you know what's happening at every stage. You know the general basics and outline of things and now you've got to fill in the blanks for yourself, now you are powerful and knowledgable enough to compose and test methods and techniques that you come up with on your own.
    11. You work hard and in a fair amount of time (months +) you have set up a succesful online money making venture.

    You could of course get lucky and find the good forums in the first place and start following a legit marketer's instructions from the start, however I feel that most people take the route that I have just laid out..
    To answer your questions:


    1. Article Marketing is just one part of a much larger backlinking profile that you should be aiming to set up for your sites. If you don't know what I'm talking about when I say 'linking structure' or 'backlink profile' then you shouldn't be thinking about article marketing at all as it is a tool that you are far from understanding how to use.. Take this analogy: You're main aim is to travel faster without walking. You don't know what a car is or how it works and you're asking about the positives and negatives of using a certain type of gear box as you've read online that 'gearboxes' have something to do with a method that would allow you to 'travel fast'.

    To answer your question: Article marketing can be a good attribute to your linking strategy if done properly. It can't really die it just needs to be used in the right way.. Take another analogy: Your friend tries to unscrew a screw with the wrong type of screwdriver. It doesn't work and the screw does't come out. You wonder if 'screwdrivers are now dead'..

    2. Spinning is the technique of putting text into spintax format to produce hundreds or thousands of different variations of an article. You want these different variations because it means you get unique articles. Varying standards of unique content is needed on different parts of your marketing. To answer your question in regard to if you should use spun articles when doing article marketing then the answer would be: it depends. It depends on what kind of article marketing you're doing and where you're using these articles. If you're using these articles to link to deep tiers then it can be okay to use spun articles whereas if you're talking tier 1 article marketing then you're probably better off using handwritten unique content.. If you don't understand what I mean when I say 'tier' then you're not at a stage where you need to be thinking about spun articles or not. Learn the strategy you're going to use and then worry about the specifics. I do love analogys so here's another one: You decide to learn to fly a plane, you're still learning to take-off but then you ask a question about when the best time to put the wheels out before you land is.. it's completely irrelevant information to you at this point..

    The same content on different domains is 100% duplicate content - this is what people mean 98% of the time they talk about duplicate content (not the same content on just one domain).

    If you're a web designer then you've got the added benefit of not having to learn the techy side of this business.. Imagine some people, they are starting out in this and they don't even know about server config or HTML, that's a whole other skill set they have to learn before they even get to the marketing side of things.. You're probably starting to see why so many people fail at IM lol :p

    WF is pretty much just an insult to our business and IM itself, You're going to love the analogy: Imagine you wanted to become a great fighter, you could either learn martial arts (Blackhatworld) or learn how to 'wrestle' in the WWE(world wrestling entertainment) (Warrior Forum). You can either learn to fight and kick IMs ass or you can learn how to pretend to fight and never kick anyone's ass..
     
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  18. thejake

    thejake Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Pro Tip: disregard advice in re content spinning when they don't know the past tense of spin.
     
  19. Comic

    Comic Regular Member

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    What is up with the advice being given here? Wow.

    Just because a few black hat techniques are not working anymore does not mean it's dead.

    I make my living and employe people doing SEO. We had one site that got nailed by Google and we only took it over after another firm never delivered and link bombed it. Turned out it wasn't the links that nailed it but the onsite 404 errors. The site has recovered since.

    OP to answer your questions,

    1. Article marketing is NOT dead. However, like anything else if abused or not done correctly it will not work or even worse.... backfire on you.

    2. Yes you should be spinning. But again it needs to be done right. Most people can't do it professionally. They could if they took the time but most people want to push a magic button and make money. Those days are gone. You spin an article by the sentence and then spin it at the word level in each of your spun sentences. Like this "I just saw a brown cow" {{I|We|Chad|John|My wife} {just|just now|for the first time} {saw|witnessed} a brown cow.|I can't believe I just saw a brown cow.|We just saw a brown cow} (For time sake I didn't finish the last few sentences) I try to make 5 unique sentences and then spin them. That will give you hundreds of unique good quality sentences.

    As far as duplicate content. Yes and yes. Duplicate content is bad. It's worse if it's duplicated on your own domain. However, duplicate text can exist and still rank from one site to another. The next time someone says it can't be done. Pull up a news article. News can hit the wire right now from the AP and yet the Washington Times is ranking for it. My advice is NOT to copy articles but you can curate news, etc. Try to write your own original articles.

    Bottom line, there is a learning curve. As you can tell by the responses here. As cheap as some services are you should be contracting out to a firm. We mostly sell to only other firms. I'm not trying to sell you on my services, just giving you ideas.

    As far as WF, well I would bet that the above paragraphs end up in a WSO for $7 in the next few days being sold as "Newbie makes $6,492 in two hours with this new method". lol
     
  20. Snoogles

    Snoogles Newbie

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    YOU GUYS ARE SUPER HELPFUL AND AWESOME. Can we be friends? I like BHW already :) Thanks for all the info! So, I'm kinda question everything I've learned about internet marketing, passive income and such right now. I guess i'll go into where I'm at. People can tell me if it's a pipe dream or not.

    I'm a 26 year old tech savy graphic/web designer/photographer that works full time

    I've read the 4-Hour work week. I want out of 9-5. I've also read Robert Himler's ebook FarFrom.it. I've been listening to the Smart Passive Income podcast lately (Anything have good or bad to say about that? He seems to make tons of money, unless he's lieing about that)

    I've toyed around with various passive income ideas...Amazon Affiliates, Youtube, Stock Photography, Niche Sites, Blogging... But haven't spent a lot of time trying to implement any of them.

    Regarding article marketing, I'd be really curious to see what you guys think of this video (Dang, can't post links). Just Google "article-marketing-mostly-a-scam-whiteboard-friday" its by SEOMOZ. I just like exploring all sides of an argument and hearing from each end. I'd say this video is about as opposite from the belief system of this forum as you can get, haha

    Also does anyone have anything to say about Pat Flyn's (smart passive income) backlinking stratagy? He calls it "The Backlinking Strategy that works" I'd post a link but i'm too much of a noob in the forums right now.

    Anyway I'm kinda rambling, I guess I want to hear other peoples opinions on my current sources of information (4 hour work week, smart passive incom, etc) and tell me if im headed the right way or if i'm chasing something barely attainable..