Cold War 2

I dont want to make that thread political. Just to state that if your business is dependent on Russia in any way, its a good time to start searching for alternative.

Yesterday's NATO statement:
http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/news_108501.htm

We have decided to suspend all practical civilian and military cooperation between NATO and Russia. Our political dialogue in the NATO-Russia Council can continue, as necessary, at the Ambassadorial level and above, to allow us to exchange views, first and foremost on this crisis. We will review NATO?s relations with Russia at our next meeting in June.

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NATO's 2nd in command:
http://rt.com/usa/156204-nato-vershbow-russia-adversary/

NATO Deputy Secretary General Alexander Vershbow now says that the allied group has been compelled to treat Russia ?as more of an enemy than a partner?

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lancis said:

I dont want to make that thread political. Just to state that if your business is dependent on Russia in any way, its a good time to start searching for alternative.

Yesterday's NATO statement:
http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/news_108501.htm



NATO's 2nd in command:
http://rt.com/usa/156204-nato-vershbow-russia-adversary/

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The European Union is too dependent on Russian oil for the US to have the impact that the politicians think they have. Russia could do a few things that would quell any appetite for destruction (deliberate Guns and Roses) such as dumping oil on the world market 30 percent or more below the market price or refusing to sell to the Eu. and selling the oil that would normally to the Eu. to China. Then you have the simple matter that Russia is a permanent member of the UN security counsel with veto powers. Add in the fact that the logistical supply chain is too long for any sustained military effort by the US.

The articles are a scare tactic. I would not be too concerned.

Russia doesn't give a fuck and I support them.
They were planning to move on trading with Asia mostly anyway.

JustUs said:

The European Union is too dependent on Russian oil for the US to have the impact that the politicians think they have. Russia could do a few things that would quell any appetite for destruction (deliberate Guns and Roses) such as dumping oil on the world market 30 percent or more below the market price or refusing to sell to the Eu. and selling the oil that would normally to the Eu. to China. Then you have the simple matter that Russia is a permanent member of the UN security counsel with veto powers. Add in the fact that the logistical supply chain is too long for any sustained military effort by the US.

The articles are a scare tactic. I would not be too concerned.

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It is past the stage of scare tactic. EU is dependent on Russian oil, but they have no choice and will have to find alternative supplier. Possibly Iran. Sanctions on Iran are being lifted at the moment.

Moreover, its not NATO alone. Russia is vigorously closing the iron curtain from the other side.

lancis said:

It is past the stage of scare tactic. EU is dependent on Russian oil, but they have no choice and will have to find alternative supplier. Possibly Iran. Sanctions on Iran are being lifted at the moment.

Moreover, its not NATO alone. Russia is vigorously closing the iron curtain from the other side.

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Ahh, you don't know the inside story, don't believe the news.
Trust me, I am from Russia.
I can tell you that Kazahstan, Kyrgystan, Uzbekistan, North Korea and possible Mongolia are Russian allies for sure, Russia is in close relationship with China and India was for Russian in the Ukrainian conflict.
In common, they all hate one thing and we know what.

auxiliarus said:

Ahh, you don't know the inside story, don't believe the news.
Trust me, I am from Russia.
I can tell you that Kazahstan, Kyrgystan, Uzbekistan, North Korea and possible Mongolia are Russian allies for sure, Russia is in close relationship with China and India was for Russian in the Ukrainian conflict.
In common, they all hate one thing and we know what.

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I know the inside story, thats the problem. I have business contacts in Russia.
Lets not make it political, and try to refrain from taking sides?

lancis said:

It is past the stage of scare tactic. EU is dependent on Russian oil, but they have no choice and will have to find alternative supplier. Possibly Iran. Sanctions on Iran are being lifted at the moment.

Moreover, its not NATO alone. Russia is vigorously closing the iron curtain from the other side.

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I guess you do not get it. The US is arguably, and questionably, the worlds largest exporter of *refined* petroleum products while Russia is arguably the largest exporter of petroleum. If Russia were to dump its petroleum under the market price, it would have devastating effects on the world economy while not harming Russia at all. Iranian oil? Don't you think that Russia has their hand in Iran? Was it not Putin that humbled Obama in Iran?

As I said, it is nothing more than a scare tactic. If you wish, it is a feel good propaganda tactic.

JustUs said:

If Russia were to dump its petroleum under the market price, it would have devastating effects on the world economy while not harming Russia at all.

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You have to be kidding about the 'not harming Russia at all' part. It will destroy Russian economy. Oil is the only thing they export.

lancis said:

I know the inside story, thats the problem. I have business contacts in Russia.
Lets not make it political, and try to refrain from taking sides?

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Ahah, well trust me - your business contact are wrong.
I have been to Russia and all of those other countries I listed except China, while you heard it from someone.
That is a huge difference.

lancis said:

I know the inside story, thats the problem. I have business contacts in Russia.Lets not make it political, and try to refrain from taking sides?

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What's the inside story?

Believing this thread will not descend into politics is like her believing you will insert just the tip.

john1444 said:

What's the inside story?

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The major helicopter factories have practically stopped their production lines, because the engines (and some other parts) were imported from the Ukraine. This is one of the real reason for the continuing confrontation. Russia needs these engine factories, this way or another.

The government attempts to give a boost to the local producers of medical equipment, payment systems, etc. All in order to make the country self sufficient. In parallel law makers are given a green light to make laws that will eventually make it easy to block any sources of objective information.

Let's just take over the world already.

@lancis: The US economy is too fragile to go into any kind of real trade wars. Since they have a long record of practicality vs insanity, I wouldn't expect any crazy course like that.

auxiliarus said:

In common, they all hate one thing and we know what.

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Let me guess: freedom?

By the way my comment cuts both ways!

This is certainly not about the people living there but about power, money and resources

lancis said:

You have to be kidding about the 'not harming Russia at all' part. It will destroy Russian economy. Oil is the only thing they export.

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Russia's Top 10 Exports

The following export product groups represent the highest dollar value in Russian global shipments during 2013. Also shown is the percentage share each export category represents in terms of overall exports from Russia.

Mineral fuels including oil: $304,559,452,000 (57.9% of total exports)
Iron and steel: $20,050,729,000 (3.8%)
Pearls, gems, precious metals and coins: $14,367,047,000 (2.7%)
Fertilizers: $9,119,157,000 (1.7%)
Machinery: $8,815,393,000 (1.7%)
Wood: $7,324,251,000 (1.4%)
Aluminum: $7,181,742,000 (1.4%)
Inorganic chemicals: $5,009,209,000 (1%)
Copper: $4,962,945,000 (0.9%)
Electronic equipment: $4,914,638,000 (0.9%)

All 10 of Russia's top exports posted double-digit gains over the 2009 to 2013 period, the slowest of which was Russian aluminum at 24%.

The top grower among the leading exports was non-industrial diamonds under pearls, gems, precious metals and coins — an export product category up 257.2%. Inorganic chemicals were in second place (up 126.4%) followed by machinery exports (up 65.7%)
http://www.worldstopexports.com/russias-top-10-exports/2350

Fastest-Growing Russian Export Products

Listed below in descending order are the fastest-growing export product categories from Russia. Shown within parentheses is the percentage increase in a product category's exports from 2009 to 2013.

Silk: US$234,000 (up 2,027% since 2009)
Knit or crochet fabric: $8,796,000 (up 891.7%)
Special woven/tufted fabric: $9,171,000 (up 875.6%)
Gums, resins and vegetable saps: $4,613,000 (up 650.1%)
Furskins and artificial fur: $336,723,000 (up 540.6%)
Knit or crochet clothing and accessories: $112,299,000 (up 535.9%)
Footwear: $143,386,000 (up 406.2%)
Miscellaneous manufactured articles: $190,674,000 (up 400.7%)
Feathers, artificial flowers and hair: $884,000 (up 375.3%)
Other animal-origin products: $79,263,000 (up 339.5%)
Meat: $85,531,000 (up 293.4%)
Collector items, art and antiques: $4,680,000 (up 286.1%)
Food industry waste and animal fodder: $1,040,035,000 (up 281.9%)

Woven silk fabric led the fastest-growing percentage increases in Russian export sales.

Woven pile and chenille fabrics, braided/ornamental trim and embroidery experienced surging sales under the special woven/tufted fabric category.
http://www.worldstopexports.com/fastest-growing-russian-export-products/2358

Notice petroleum products is not in the list of fastest growing Russian exports.

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Seems as if there are other industries. I assert that dumping oil will not harm Russia. If it does harm Russia, soch doming would not cause as much damage to Russia as it would to the US and the Eu. China would pick up any slack.

While a US citizen, I fully support Russia in the matter.