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Can You Out Rank these Big Sites??

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by GreenDolla, Mar 26, 2010.

  1. GreenDolla

    GreenDolla Regular Member

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    hey guys i have been running into alot of great keywords lately with very low competion for exact phrase count and good search count but it seems like for every one of these dam keywords you have a ton of these big ass sites with a million backlinks and that doesn't even have the term i am searching for in its title or meta description it just has all of the words in it but not the exact term..i know some of you know what im talking about..for know im using a article directory so im not trying to make a site around this keyword and im willing to do some serious backlinking for it..i don't even think some of these sites have the keyword in anchor text for backlinks...what do you guys think
     
  2. GreenDolla

    GreenDolla Regular Member

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    guys heres an example not my keywords just an example..ut yeah do a search and look how none of them search results have this exact phrase in its title or description...what im asking is could i out rank by builing backlinks with "mp3 songs free download" as my anchor text and by adding this kw to my meta description and title..this is how i rank for lower competion keywords and it works all the time..but i never worked with keywords like this
     
  3. peter2002

    peter2002 Senior Member

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    As a general tip I can tell you that it is almost impossible to outrank aged, high PR authority sites with tons of high quality links pointing to them.
     
  4. GreenDolla

    GreenDolla Regular Member

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    see thats what im saying even when these guys basically don't have any backlinks with the term in anchor text pointing to them and the keyword is basically not in their title or description but when you use exact phrase count then it shows up a whole total different search doesn't make since to me..lets say i was to get 3,000 backlinks with anchor text with that term you think id have a chance?
     
  5. jazzc

    jazzc Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    yes, you would if you also have some quality backlinks with the same anchor text.
     
  6. GreenDolla

    GreenDolla Regular Member

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    quality backlinks to me is 1. getting backlinks from related content. 2. backlinks from high pr pages..i can get these its just these big sites scare me 2 death..well there's nothing i can do but start and see how it goes..im used to ranking for keywords in smaller niches with less competion but its just to much work for little payoff..id rather tackel about 10-20 keywords a month and build backlinks to them everday
     
  7. bobbys

    bobbys Regular Member

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    Content, Backlinks, Domain Name, Anchor Text, Authority, Age, Traffic, yada yada etc all add up to a constantly changing magical number that decides where you rank for your term relative to others already ranking. A million backlinks may get you an A in that category but if you're flunking or pulling C's in the rest you'll just float around in the twilight zone pages of google's enigmatic indexing system, especially for competative terms. :eek:
     
  8. MarkI

    MarkI Regular Member

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    that's true. but those sites that are #1 for these keywords are not even optimized for the the keyword at all. so would it be possible to outrank them?
     
  9. aishahriar

    aishahriar BANNED BANNED

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    "it depends"

    like peter said, it's really next to impossibly to outrank an aged high PR domain

    However if it's a shopping site I always go for it.... again, I don't really know what your kw so I'm not really sure how applicable the advice would be. Even if it's not targeted anchor texts you may not be able to overtake them simply because of their PR...
     
  10. GreyWolf

    GreyWolf Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    Another thing to think of is that not everything has to happen overnight. It might be really hard to outrank them in a week or month or maybe even a year. But if you concentrate your efforts on your other projects, and just put in a little seo work once a week or a few times a month into this one. It might eventually start getting the ranking you want, and then you can start concentrating more efforts on it.

    In other words, concentrate your efforts on other projects for quick short term returns, but also keep a few projects going that your not expecting to make a profit right away, but when they do it might be very strong.

    Remember this: Even MySpace took a few years before it started showing a profit, but they kept it going and when it finally did show a profit it went from millions of dollars in the red to millions of dollars in the black almost overnight. Not that your going to want to invest the time and money that Greenspan and eUniverse pumped into MySpace, but it's a good idea to keep a few project working that might have some future potential.
     
  11. bobbys

    bobbys Regular Member

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    In my experience, yes you can overtake an aged high PR domain. Aged, high PR domains have it very good with google, all they have to do is post a single blog post with a few keywords and a photo or two and they'll be ranking on page 1 for almost all but the most competative terms. Just take a look at how many keywords sites like thehuffingtonpost.com, cnn.com or cnet.com rank for. With a concentrated effort you can overtake them though, as you can focus on adding much more content about "cow tipping" or whatever your topic may be to your website than thehuffingtonpost cares to.

    On the other hand if you're talking about outranking these high PR/aged sites in their own niche for their top keywords, like outranking cnn.com for "news" or mp3.com for "mp3" then no, that just aint gonna happen but that should be common sense :)
     
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  12. aishahriar

    aishahriar BANNED BANNED

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    Hi bobbys - thanks, you've summed it up better than i cud :)
     
  13. turbopugsleylx

    turbopugsleylx Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Another thought it try to get a link from some of these big sites...see if u can drop a link on their site somewhere so you can get some of their link juice!
     
  14. aмillionaírе

    aмillionaírе Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    I know exactly what you are talking about. Have you ever heard of PPC? That is the only quick solution when you have a decent niche but experience this. What you are talking about is fascist on the search engine's part. Authority sites are given so much weight that even two mention of a sparsely separated phrase outranks a whole websites dedicated to it. It really puts a knife in your back, especially when you've actually done keyword research plus write decent content. There's only two solutions to this without waiting for at least 6 months for your site to be stabilized, those solutions are article submission and PPC. Submitted articles will stabilize your content due to the fact that they themselves are stabilized domains. PPC will allow you to dominate your golden niche that has no competition. A new site will be Google dancing and suffocating itself in Google's sandbox for at least 6 months, who wants to wait that long, especially when we have more niches to go after?

    Another thing I notice is authority sites sometimes even escape Google's geo-graphic results. That's pure favouritism and has no place in this type of environment. If a local website can't get a decent ranking that is pure foolishness. I think Google's manifesto is geared toward pissing us off enough so that we'd want to purchase into their advertising program, and it's working quite well. Technically speaking, I think Google has boosted the role of its PageRank system. I think you shouldn't expect anything from SEO until 6 months after your efforts. Google is discriminating against long-tail keywords and there is enough evidence to prove it. It is blatantly disregarding sites that have long-tail keywords in its title.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2010
  15. Alex Brooks

    Alex Brooks BANNED BANNED

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    If the websites are pretty unreleated to the keyword, IE not within the meta/title/content, then it'll be quite easy to out-rank these pages, supplying you have half-decent on-page SEO and some backlinks pointing to the page.
     
  16. Bryan

    Bryan Power Member

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    Sorry for a noob question but how do you find low competition keywords? What's the best way to find them? (Sorry about hijacking the thread, was wondering since you ran into some heh)
     
  17. CyHead

    CyHead Regular Member

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    no it's an uphill battle that you'll lose. It means they have authorithy and in the short run you can outrank them on it - but the fact that they're ranking for it without even trying shows that google has already given them authority and credibility and will rank them. Also those terms are likely to have less traffic, meaning you need to be #1 to get the most traffic.
     
  18. AndersonSpider

    AndersonSpider Junior Member

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    CyHead is right, you can google almost any niche and you will see tons of sites at the top with HORRIBLE SEO. I've seen some sites that didn't have any keywords or titles at all rank toward the top and IMO your fighting an uphill battle trying to beat them in google. Imagine if they did a little SEO, they will bump you instantly. Age > SEO

    -Anderson:spider:
     
  19. aмillionaírе

    aмillionaírе Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    These sites carry too much weight. Example:

    Say I want to rank for "black hat fruits"
    unless I wait for 6 months, even if I do all of backlinking and content writing, a thread on bhw in the lounge about fruits will rank before my site. Google takes long to trust a site, I guess. Throughout this 6 months my site will be sandboxed, danced, and all type of things before it is allowed to even breathe. Of course, I can shorten the time by using an aged domain. You can tell whether a SEO product is a scam by how quick a turnaround they promise, and whether they offer quotes for their product or not.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2010
  20. herron

    herron Regular Member

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    They just aren't competing against sites targeting that word. Someone always has to be number 1.

    Edit: I don't regard 6months a long time in SEO terms. Keep working on new keywords and once the initital 6 months is up you will have new competitve keywords popping up from here on in
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2010