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Can you gst sued for mass messaging on a platform like facebook?

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by ppaizon217, Jan 22, 2016.

  1. ppaizon217

    ppaizon217 Regular Member

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    Hi, can a company sue you if you are mass messaging (trough their platform) with 3k accounts peoples? Sending like 60k messages a day across all accounts redirecting to free offers like email optin or even growing your own mail list? I understand if we talk about facebook or other super big companies of 10+ bn you wont even get noticed in the load of messages thery get everyday. But what about some platforms which are worth 100m to 10bn and they do not handle so many messages a day or their message function it's a secondary/third feature? Hence they'd see a spike of 50%+ in messages and instantly discover it's "artificial".. ? Could they sue? If yes, for what?


    thank you and excuse my english.
     
  2. xbryan

    xbryan Senior Member

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    if those accounts are hacked accounts, yes, if you bought them from PVA, seller (private proxy created). No
     
  3. ppaizon217

    ppaizon217 Regular Member

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    I believe you can get sued anyway in many other scenarios. Atleast a c & d. Anyone had experience getting a c& d for mass messaging/posting or a lawsui?
     
  4. Asif WILSON Khan

    Asif WILSON Khan Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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  5. ppaizon217

    ppaizon217 Regular Member

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    Interesting. Thank you for your reply. As I see you're kinda experienced finding things on the web.. Maybe you could even find someone sued by some big company for mass messaging even tough the content were useful, not annoying users, no hacking, following common practices like disclaimers etc ?
     
  6. Asif WILSON Khan

    Asif WILSON Khan Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    Numerous cases involving Email Spam, Text Messages and Mobile phones and ToS violations. Twitter have sued people spamming its system in the past. Facebook has sued spammers too.
    http://mashable.com/2012/04/05/twitter-sues-spammers/#1IFvWjWZkOqt
    http://www.pcworld.com/article/2533...alleged_spammers_and_spam_tool_providers.html
    http://thenextweb.com/twitter/2012/...s-twitter-is-suing-for-encouraging-spam/#gref
    https://www.facebook.com/notes/face...fight-against-spam-and-spammers/442722120765/
    http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-...s-won-nearly-2-billion-suing-spammers-n217916
    http://venturebeat.com/2014/10/03/facebook-has-made-nearly-2-billion-from-suing-spammers/
    http://www.zdnet.com/article/sued-by-facebook-spam-king-surrenders-to-fbi/
    http://www.cnet.com/news/facebook-awarded-711-million-in-spam-lawsuit/
    https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2011/01/28/facebook-awarded-over-360-million-spammer/
     
  7. ppaizon217

    ppaizon217 Regular Member

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    Thank you for the research. I have read each paper you linked but all lawsuits are to:

    a. peoples who have stolen accounts
    b. incited to share in order to unlock content + content locking with subscriptions + from what I understood, also stealing accounts.
    c. owner of bots to spam or fake likes
    d. mails, sms without opt ins

    So from that plus my research I came to the conclusion that
    a. no false advertising..
    b. no mentions of others brands
    b.2 dont do mobile subscriptions but only sales and mails (less to no reports)
    c. and not directly messaging other users.. but posting on your wall/groups of any given social network
    d. not stealing accounts but only using yours
    e. writing good original content,
    z. diversifying a lot..lps,text,lead-ins,domains,product/w.e you are promoting.. and again always rewarding the user with what they expect..
    d. no pornography
    f. using pictures you actually can use for business purposes..
    g. proper disclaimers

    then.. you're ok to go. I guess.. I could not find noone being sued for providing what they expect, with proper disclaimers, not stealing others accounts,
     
  8. Asif WILSON Khan

    Asif WILSON Khan Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    Well if you are concerned then it might be worthwhile consulting a Lawyer/Solicitor who specialises in Internet Law.
    Also check the ToS and all connected documents on your platform of choice, some platforms only allow 1 account per person (you mentioned 3k in the op), just because you haven't found a case that matches your method, doesn't mean you can't be prosecuted or sued.
    If you are doing anything shady, then just remember not to leave any footprints leading directly back to you.
     
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  9. ppaizon217

    ppaizon217 Regular Member

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    I'am doing nothing shady nor what I mentioned in any post. If I can get prosecuted in anyway surely I will not try it for some bucks.
    Well I watched at three ToS. I seen most of them allow only 1 account per person. Given the above facts someone could only sue you if you are using more than one account (for promotions, as they would have to sue half of their users, but they don't promote anything so will never care..)

    A question: you think agreeing to ToS and violating it, is possible to be taken to court even living.. idk in Bulgaria,Romania or India? or is only worth for USA?

    kinda off topic: Anyway being anonymous it's virtually impossible.. unless you connect to the shady activities from public IPs without cameras and computers you destroy after..without destroying it you're only adding extra layers of protection.. so it's virtually impossible to do so, and even if possible with a lot of hassles, not worth it for the risks, still, imho.
     
  10. LoftPower

    LoftPower Elite Member

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    I totally agree with this answer. If you signed up for an account, you should have read the TOS, so they can hold you accountable for this.
     
  11. BassTrackerBoats

    BassTrackerBoats Super Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    It is probably not a criminal issue but rather a civil one and you can get sued if it is against their ToS. Heck, they can sue you for no reason at all or even if it is insinuated in their ToS although that is more unlikely.

    That sort of thing has happened with other large platforms/sites, and to members of BHW.

    Will they sue you is a whole 'nuther ball of wax though as sometimes they look to see if it has value to them and not only monetary value as a judgement can deter others once it is public.

    If they sue you can they get a 7 figure judgement? If so they may pursue as that is a figure that would slow the roll of others thinking of doing the same thing you are doing.
     
  12. Asif WILSON Khan

    Asif WILSON Khan Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    If you cost them enough money or disrupt their service to an unacceptable level then yes they could take legal action worldwide.
    Most of these large companies have registered offices around the world.

    Remember, Blackhat is a trade off between risk and reward but don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
     
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  13. wowhaxor

    wowhaxor Elite Member

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    This isn't even debatable not only can you be sued but you will quite possibly lose it happens often. I've seen it happen multiple times over the years, usually you need to be a huge spammer like to the point you lower the quality of the site OR more commonly the maker of spam software. You agreed to the ToS so while you're not going to go to jail you are violating that agreement; this is sometimes flimsy and there is prescident that says that's not enough (nobody reads a ToD or understands agreeing is equal to your electronic signature it's really not) but after they spell out how you're violating that contract when you ignore the C&D they send you that is much more straightforward (usually you can't even, it's impossible to remove your existing spam in most scenarios) then the suit comes.

    Further some companies have been shady and served papers for the suits while implying it is just a C&D and they don't read it closely and get a default judgement when they never respond (CL won an award of over a million from one spammer like this I remember specifically).

    Remember not only can they put a $ value on the harm to the user experience which drives a customer away but there is the very quantifiable cost of employees manually reviewing/removing spam (when CL sued CLAD Genius they showed they spent $5K/month just for labor for manual removal (not anti spam coders, not people reviewing disputed spam complaints but just the lowest level of some guy browsing and deleting posts) - and 99% of their removal is user flags not staff plus a ton of spam stays up, a company serious about it could spend a small fortune) not to mention coding and publishing updates to defeat automation/spam as well as policies and practices for dealing with spammers and people who dispute their labeling as a spammer.

    Is it a rock solid always win kind of deal? No. But these companies do win often so if you're at the level where it's hurting the overall site (you can spam to the point it causes people to stop using a site, costing them revenue, or to the point where everyone talks about it negatively damaging their brand and reducing the likelihood of a future user choosing them over a competitor, this is actual financial harm as well) or they have staff working against you specifically or you're selling very popular software for spamming a specific site know it is possible. If you're posting to 50 FB groups with 20 accounts they'll just ban your accounts though.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 23, 2016
  14. K-r-i-x

    K-r-i-x Newbie

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    How would they find out it is you though? I assume you use proxies while mass messaging and also I assume you don't use your real details when purchasing the domain you use to promote. So sure, they would probably sue you if it was easy to track you down, but cover your tracks and you should be fine.
     
  15. BassTrackerBoats

    BassTrackerBoats Super Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    They follow the money.
     
  16. K-r-i-x

    K-r-i-x Newbie

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    Why would for example an affiliate network comply? There would have to be a criminal investiagation for them to reveal any type of information about the spammer in question.
     
  17. ppaizon217

    ppaizon217 Regular Member

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    Well, at this point, my only question is:
    How can they know it's 1 individual posting to 5000 groups or 10 individuals posting to 500 groups? Given:
    a. domains are spread over a lot of hostings and providers,
    b. networks you use to monetize are all different networks (and with a few of them, you have more than one account), AND all of them have different infos,payment details..
    c. proxies you use to connect to these accounts are different providers, different infos, different cards..


    Another question: is in your opinion guys, posting to 5000 groups a month with decent content (offering always some value to the user in form of article without it being a sale pitch but rather informative in first place)..and being sure to diversify networks,domains etc. at risk of being sued?
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
  18. Asif WILSON Khan

    Asif WILSON Khan Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    Not true. You will find that a lot of companies will hand over information if requested. Also the company in question can initiate an investigation if they think you are carrying out fraud on their platform.
    As long as the request is made by a recognised authority and made the right way then there doesn't have to be a court order involved, although most do require a court order or search warrant.
    Check the ToS of many sites and they clearly state they will how they handles request for information.

    Here is part of Facebooks Data Policy

    [​IMG]
    https://www.facebook.com/about/privacy/
     
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  19. SexyDuck

    SexyDuck Newbie

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    If you are so terrified of being sued, why are you even considering spamming? Of course there's a risk but good spammers know their sh*t. No offense OP, but if you have to ask, you shouldn't be dong it.
     
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  20. Commoner

    Commoner Power Member

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    OP, you can get sued for almost everything - according to the US law, even Fastfood chains are sued for causing fats. What do you think?

    Be Brave or Be Bare