Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by maxlinks, Jan 23, 2012.
Ive tried a few but its not easy to know which ones actually work.
Generally people will come to threads like this just to advertise their own services (via sig). I've hidden mine here, BTW!
There is no particular BST that is bound to work for YOU. Each site, each KW, each URL varies. Each backlink varies. Buying services for SEO is like shooting in the wild hoping for results. All you have to keep in mind is, to diversify links as much as possible, and to get high quality links. Google doesn't like low quality links that are only meant to be "fillers".
Just my 2 cents.
What's working for me right now is jstover77 service http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackh...ization-packages-dominate-google-no-time.html
Great guy, great service and for what you get, the price ain't too bad either! Working for me anyway!
any more ideas ? its not easy,
thats an expensive one !! I wont rob a bank just to do SEO
If your keywords are highly competitive then you have to do alot of link building to rank higher
And so far for link building you have to check Rank fuser service by George BG/Botwiz
this worked well for me
It really depends on your website and content and keywords. Try to message all of the people offering Link Building Services, and tell them your keyword, and your current rank, and ask if they will offer any guarantee for an increased ranking. I am sure that many of the people will offer guarantees, and some of them will say no.
It is true that nobody can guarantee a ranking, but if the person understands google and seo enough, they should be able to tell within 80% accuracy if their service will help you get a higher ranking within 2-4 weeks. Usually it will take up to 4weeks to see substantially increased results from a good service.
I think Wikis are the new trend and on BHW,you can't get better service than this http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/buy-sell-services/379400-wiki-king-unique-wiki-style-backlinks-low-0-02-link.html
I was so impressed that I even included it in one of my MNS Package
No offence KF, but I don't agree with this.
No-one who knows anything about SEO will offer you a guarantee. If they do, I'd immediately turn away and find someone else as they are full of sh*t.
There's quite a big difference between offering a guarantee and telling you "within 80% accuracy" if their service will help you get a higher ranking.
I also don't think there are [m]any SEO services that you should use on their own. All the decent providers (unless they offer full service SEO) will tell you to vary your links and purchase services elsewhere, too. I tend to buy 5-10 at a time for a site I'm serious about. In the time you'll spend PM'ing various people back and forth, you're much better off just investing your cash and going off to make that money back elsewhere (hustle on fiverr or whatever). There are so many to choose from, you'll literally be there forever if you interview everyone.
Most of the link building services offered in the BST section are almost completely automated and cost the provider pennies on the dollar. The thread starter is clearly just looking for increased rankings for certain keywords, not any full service SEO package.
Myself and many other offer people money back guarantees when it comes to increased rankings, because it is easy enough to see how google SHOULD react when it comes to link building. I don't see why you would "run away" from someone just because they offer a money back guarantee.
Someone offers 10,000 Blog Comments, and no guarantee to increase rankings.
I offer 10,000 Blog Comments, with a guarantee to increase rankings or money back.
Why does MY offer scare you much more? Just not seeing the reasoning behind that.
It is not so easy for everyone to just "hustle" some money. Some of us find it very hard just to make $1.00 online, and we may have a set budget for investing that we scraped together for link building/seo, and that budget is probably under $30.00 per month.
I went through the BST section the other day, and saw several "full service seo" and "links from many different sources" which were literally just combining services the OP gets from Fiverr together and marks them up 50% and calls them a package. I just don't see how these would be more recommended simply due to variance in the types of links. If someone just wants increased rankings, and they can be achieved with 1 type of link (blog comments for example), then why should they spend money on other types of links?
I can say 100% that adding Forum Profiles packages, while adding more variety to your links, is MUCH more dangerous to your overall SEO strategy then using Blog Comments alone. Forum Profiles are the easiest for Google to weed-out, do not in any way shape or form look natural, can piss off webmasters leading to complaints to Google, usually end up on Malware sites due to inexperienced or lazy xrumer users etc.
Once again, to put it simply, I just don't see your reasoning behind someone offering a money back guarantee to be less qualified then someone who doesn't. You don't have to interview everyone. Choose 5 link building service providers within your budget, and copy/paste a PM saying "Can you guarantee me Top XXX for this keyword or my money back?" Would take about 15 minutes total from research and PMing, and for most people here, time is readily available, money is not.
Maybe we're getting a little confused as to what a guarantee is. A money-back guarantee is something different to a performance guarantee.
Obviously I would expect my money back if the service wasn't as expected (didn't build the right links etc.), but I wouldn't expect money back if there was no increase in rankings, nor would I expect anyone to offer it.
What if I bought your service, you offered me a money back guarantee and then I started changing a variable outside of your control (keywords on site or whatever)? Would you still give me my money back? It just leads to a customer service nightmare.
Personally, I'm well used to backing my ability. I only get paid on a successful sale when brokering, but that's a slightly different game where more of the success is down to the broker.
As a link building service provider, if Google decides to discount the links you are offering a few weeks after I purchased, I would never ask for my money back. I wouldn't expect you to offer that, either. That would just cause carnage
From a broker perspective, I would never, ever recommend anyone buy all their links from one source, even if they are most effective *now*. I've seen million dollar businesses drop off the face of Google due to X type of link being devalued. It's a dangerous game and it's not sustainable. Hence why I would advise you mix up your backlinking profile. If you are a decent SEO service provider, I'd serious advise you to advise clients the same. It's extremely risky to rely on one link type, regardless of how effective it might be today.
I don't see anything wrong with people reselling from multiple sources. If they work as a combination, great. The service provider can add a mark-up and resell that.
A performance guarantee and money back guarantee are completely related. If you pay me, with the expectation of a certain performance which can be easily measured, and I don't deliver upon that, then you would expect a refund as services were not delivered as described. I am not saying everyone should expect that people will offer money back guarantees or performance guarantees, but if the only thing you are concerned about is getting your site ranked higher, then it doesn't hurt to ask for one. The worst someone can do is decline and laugh at you. Better to be laughed at, then invest your money and end up in the same position or worse then when you started.
If someone makes drastic changes to their website which hinders my performance, then I give them the choice to continue with NO guarantee of increased rankings for the original keywords, or I stop now and they owe me nothing. Pretty simple for me. If Google discounts all of the links I built, and the site falls from the rankings, that depends on the agreement I had with the buyer. If I guaranteed them the page will stay ranked for a certain time, I have to either refund them, or re-rank their site. If no guarantee, then no refund. If the site completely dropped off within 2 weeks of my work, I would refund them because obviously I caused their site some major grief, but that has never happened to me before. Never ever seen a site completely lose rankings more than 2-3 places after I stopped working.
We are not discussing multi-million dollar business in here, so to use them as comparisons to the OP, which discusses a site capable of generating probably only a few dollars per month, is just not useful. Using 1 effective and clean link type is much safer, then simply varying your link for no other reason then to add variety.
As a serious SEO services provider, I can tell you I would NEVER in my life recommend someone with a serious business buying a link building package from the B/S/T section of blackhatworld. BST services are great for certain websites, but can be disastrous for others. Most providers are working on slim profit margins, are working with many different buyers at the same time, or outsource the work to people the buyer will never even speak to. Many of them these days don't even offer a report of where the links are being built. They are great for certain websites, because many of them DO work for increased rankings, but the footprint is so clear as day on all of them that if your competitor reported you for a manual review, your site would be heavily penalized for months.
It isn't just about what is EFFECTIVE today. Any package that contains specific links isn't just risking those links being devalued, but is risking a site being wiped from Google all together.
I would love to see input from other SEO providers, who actually monitor clients rankings etc on their thoughts on the matter, because I just can't see things from your point of view.
Also, when we get back to "million dollar" or "serious" businesses, I would actually not recommend relying on ANY type of backlink building strategy as part of your overall SEO plan. I would much rather rely on "blackhat - whitehat", such as link baiting. I would be sick to my stomach if I saw a web 2.0 with spun content and 3 links at the bottom of the article to my million dollar clients site, but around here, we call that a premium backlinking strategy, because it works. I am just not into going full blackhat on a serious website that has peoples jobs and families income on the line.
The least amount of links possible to reach the clients goal is my way of thinking.
If the site is high quality, it wont matter much if the links get devalued over time. If your site is performing well, and meeting Google standards for bounce rate, click through rate and all their OTHER measurements in their algorithm, then the backlinks being devalued wont matter.
There is just too much worry about link diversity. When we are discussing blackhat seo under $100, link diversity just isn't going to be the make or break for the success of your site.
i only tried a couple service on BHW. they are too expensive for me so i stick to fiverr but i read good things about these: - magic hat - detox's network - tensegrity services i also only go for private blog netowrk because other link property i can find for cheap other places. you just need to focus your search on specific what you want or need and not just general 'link services' and you can find good price.
I'm going to throw my two cents in the ring here, because as you said Kickflip you were looking for the thoughts of service providers who monitor this. With the evidence I've collected for a number of clients over a number of years I'm going to have to say I agree with what Meathead1234 is saying.
As someone who works at a firm built around providing complete SEO (too both small and large clients) I can confirm that time and time again diversity is a crucial aspect of your SEO program.
You need to establish a pie-diagram in my opinion, filling it with various types of backlinks to help complete the pie and ultimately win the contest.
When a website naturally gains authority it's because it is being shared, on good websites, on bad websites, on .edu domains and .com domains, in contextual posts, in non-contextual comments etc etc. Google, being the brilliant minds that they are, are well aware of the natural growth patterns of authority websites. I once attended a Google talk where they discussed how Wikipedia's growth from nothing to an internet giant was a case study in the patterns and dynamic of an emerging authority website.
If I throw down a single type of link I may aswell ask Google to drop my rank, sandbox or even de-index me. This is why more and more people use Xrumer as an attack tool rather than an SEO tool. The days of one type of linking working is well past.
I personally buy both good AND bad links for my clients, its important to understand the balancing percent of them of course but at the end of the day you need the full package, and all the variety.
Linkbuilding for a small non-competitive website, and a multi-million dollar website are the same, it really just comes down to the bulk, not the actual percent of diversity.
For long term growth, site security and even getting the rankings in the first place diversity is the way to go.
I can understand that since you aren't in the business it is hard to keep up with that without the data being infront of you - it's a common misconception that a lot of inexperienced marketers make. Just make sure to diversify and understand that it isn't about getting your client there with the least amount of links, but rather the quality that will give them safe, organic and secure growth.
To the OP - for this reason I would go with all-around services. Anything by Entri3, or Jstover pops into mind, and some people have reported ok results with Georgebg's Rank Fuser. Remember keep it diverse, build authority but also build a foundation for it to sit on
5 Services I've use, and recommend. These four should give you a diverse and powerful backlink profile.
EDU Profile links by BigBuddy
Linkpushing By BassTrackerBoats
Private Blog Posts By VaPaperChaser
Social Bookmark Service by krishananda
Scrapebox Blast (For Beefing Up Other Backlinks) by apekillape
So you basically think that, it really doesn't depend on the keyword, you would advise to spend much more then may be necessary to rank a keyword, simply to have diversity for the sake of diversity?
The days of 1 link type ranking a site are not gone, that is just false. There are many sites/keywords which require no backlinking at all to hold the number 1 position. This is how sites rank naturally, based on their content, on-page seo, and user interaction with the site.
I continue daily to rank sites highly using only 1 type of backlinks. The sites which I ranked 1.5 years ago using just 1 type of backlink are still holding strong with no significant drops any time during that period.
I feel like I am in a different world in terms of SEO then you guys. I just honestly don't believe that you think you need to go out and build a variety of links for every site you do SEO on. Do none of your sites you work on have any worth while content? Do they not get links naturally? Do they have obscene bounce rates or other issues that you guys are trying to counter?
I just feel like you guys are looking at SEO in the wrong way here. You seem to think that purchasing more diverse packages somehow makes your link building look more natural, when in reality every link you purchase, makes the site seem less natural. I think you take Google for fools, and think they can't tell a natural link from an unnatural one. I can assure you they do, but nothing I have seen tells me that their algorithm wants or expects a certain % of different types of backlinks in order to think it is natural.
I will break it down in the easiest way possible:
If I give you a keyword to rank, and 10 permanent contextual backlinks on authority sites in the same niche, and it ranks #1, then you guys still believe you absolutely need to add different links to the site to maintain that position and not receive any penalty from Google? That blows my mind if you say you do.
Yes. Yes you are. I run an entire department in a professional firm. I have years data to back my claims that diversity (not spending) but diversity and a well thought out plan build your keywords future.
Clearly your talking about ranking in obscure uncontested longtail niches - not the kind of stuff a client would come to a professional for; otherwise you are making bogus and unfounded claims about what you have gotten ranked (especially in a post panda world).
It isn't a spending game it's game about smart choices. Google is looking for a fine dine 3 course meal, so your steak better come with salad. You want to slop down a mountain of corn beef hash and call it a day that will only get you so far.
Anyway that's my input I'm done here, you got the opinion of a really bright guy (Meathead1234) and asked for it to be backed by a professional with data; that's been done. If you don't want to come around to it that's fine mate. Less competition in the pro league for us.
Did someone in this thread give you the idea that we were looking for a professional SEO firm to handle the link building for the OP? Because in my opinion, we are discussing reasonably priced SEO options for people with VERY limited budgets, who are most likely targeting long tail or weak competition keywords.
But alas, you were the one who said that SEO "for a small non-competitive website, and a multi-million dollar website are the same, it really just comes down to the bulk, not the actual percent of diversity." So whether we are discussing obscure long tail keywords, or viagra and uggs, it shouldn't matter, according to you. You told me that variety is required in ALL cases.
I have already told you, I also have years of data which show me that ranking ONLY from 1 type of backlinks has been successful, and that Google has not devalued any of the sites I worked on, and they have kept their ranking even after the majority of the links got deleted. Why? Because SEO isn't just about backlinks.
You can keep bragging in EVERY post you make about your position in a "professional seo firm", it doesn't mean anything to me. You first suggest to me that it isn't even possible to rank a site successfully long term without a diverse backlink program, then you suggest it is, but nobody would want to pay for those rankings. That just isn't true. I get people approaching me offering several hundred dollars to rank for obscure keywords. Just because they don't approach YOU to rank for those keywords, doesn't mean they aren't paying SOMEONE to do it.
Your claims are entirely based on your point of view of what SEO is, and not based on the reality that some people really do want to rank for "coolest purple dishwashers for sale in alabama". I never ever said or even hinted that it was easy to rank highly for every keyword using just 1 type of backlinks, I very very clearly stated in my original post that the most important thing is his content and keywords.
The fact that you guys think you can even begin to imagine an SEO strategy without seeing his content and keywords and current rankings and competition really makes me question whether this is all just to go against my thoughts, or if you guys are being serious.
You guys don't even know if he just wants a short term ranking, or a long term ranking. You are just assuming facts without any reasoning, simply to try to make me look wrong.
Simple question, simple answer: Is it POSSIBLE to rank a website for a specific keyword using only the help of a scrapebox blast, and have that website stay at the top permanently with no further work ever done on the site? Because right now, you guys are arguing that it is impossible, and I would be happy to prove you wrong if I need to go buy a new site and fire up scrapebox for a week, if you refuse to admit that it is possible.
Based on this, I am no longer going to express my opinion in this thread. If you want to take everything so personally, that is your problem, not mine. I've really got better things to do with my time.
My only points were:
- SEO providers shouldn't need to offer guarantees or refunds
- A diverse linking structure is sensible for ANY site
How you've managed to take that personally is quite beyond me.
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