BTC Just Hit 10k... I wish I invested.

roman375

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And I said that you're wrong too. Why there's only selected countries who taxed the BTC? All of our commodities, plane tickets, even the effing salary, are taxed.

Once we get our salary, it's taxed. Then when we buy commodities and all other stuff, they're taxed. And here BTC is just taxed, what, once and in "few" countries only?

And I've heard BTC are treated as "property", not as "currency"? (This is still related to taxes)... Sounds like, again, the Tulip Bulb.

And I did not say that there is no such thing as fiat. Obviously, fiat monies are not tied up to precious metals, that's why they are called "fiat".

So, seeing that BTC are considered as property, and is a fiat (because there is no precious metals attached to it, but a complete hype of computer mining)... Therefore, it is risky.

That is my point.

You still think I don't "need to type all that out"?

:)

Yes, I do. This is nonsensical drivel at this point.

I never said only a few countries taxed BTC. I said most first world countries tax BTC. I don't know how its taxed in other economically obscure countries. That's not the point. And quite clearly you did say fiat, which is what bank notes are, should be tied to some precious metals:

(think about how money is made, there should be some precious deposits tied to it before central banks can print bank notes).
 

roman375

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I feel like those of you who think you know about investing due to crypto are also thinking you know how international tax systems work.

Crypto has zero legal tender capacity anywhere. It's convertible and virtual, i.e. it doesn't exist in the real world.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

"A taxpayer who receives virtual currency as payment for goods or services must, in computing gross income, include the fair market value of the virtual currency, measured in U.S. dollars, as of the date that the virtual currency was received."

"If a virtual currency is listed on an exchange and the exchange rate is established by market supply and demand, the fair market value of the virtual currency is determined by converting the virtual currency into U.S. dollars ... at the exchange rate, in a reasonable manner that is consistently applied."

I cannot express enough how fucked some of you will be come tax time, regardless of what country you live in, especially if you cash your crypto out to your bank accounts and then pump it back in. Absolutely fucked. Source: I have real world tax professional experience and a degree in Accounting, and I have seen the Big Short eight times.



Okay, so I'm trying to make sure I'm getting everything straight. You are basing a "guarantee" on "speculation"? And this is coming from someone who, three months ago, did not understand the concept of supply and demand?

This is my number one pet peeve when it comes to this market. People who had a couple lucky trades, have been "in crypto" for just a few months, and now have oracle-like abilities to make "guarantees", and are pushing this onto the naive public.

Forget about FOMO, there should be serious Fear Of Buying In.

This is the EXACT shit I have been going on about for a year now with 90% of you fucks telling me I was a paranoid moron.

Why do you keep trying to debate crypto on this subforum? If you really want to learn all you can about it and try to understand it, there are much better places on the internet for this kind of debate: places that actually specialize in all things crypto.
 

Sherb

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Regarding taxation of Bitcoins (in the US, I'm not going to pretend I know tax for other countries):

Bitcoin is going to be considered a capital asset/property. This works just like bonds and stocks. If you sell, the gain or loss that is realized is taxable. These are recorded on a tax form called a Schedule D (looks like this: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040sd.pdf). Taxes are paid on profits.

If you have made over $10k in profits from crypto in this calendar year, live in the US, and aren't a moron who skips tax paying time, if you don't think you'll need to pay capital gains tax on your earnings, you are going to get a rude awakening.

Why do you keep trying to debate crypto on this subforum? If you really want to learn all you can about it and try to understand it, there are much better places on the internet for this kind of debate: places that actually specialize in all things crypto.

Silly me, I was unaware that sparking debate, providing information, and having an opinion outside the crypto circlejerk was not allowed by subsection moderator roman375. I, too, should completely disregard the following:

https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/new-cryptocurrency-section-on-bhw.695855/

Please let me know what other opinions of mine that don't completely align with yours you would like for me to stop speaking out upon via PM.
 

roman375

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Regarding taxation of Bitcoins (in the US, I'm not going to pretend I know tax for other countries):

Bitcoin is going to be considered a capital asset/property. This works just like bonds and stocks. If you sell, the gain or loss that is realized is taxable. These are recorded on a tax form called a Schedule D (looks like this: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040sd.pdf). Taxes are paid on profits.

If you have made over $10k in profits from crypto in this calendar year, live in the US, and aren't a moron who skips tax paying time, if you don't think you'll need to pay capital gains tax on your earnings, you are going to get a rude awakening.



Silly me, I was unaware that sparking debate, providing information, and having an opinion outside the crypto circlejerk was not allowed by subsection moderator roman375. I, too, should completely disregard the following:

"Maybe you're in the know and want to share your passion and get others interested. Maybe you've heard of CryptoCurrencies but you're not too sure what it is or how it works. Even if you're not a fan, we want to hear from you!"

Please let me know what other opinions of mine that don't completely align with yours you would like for me to stop speaking out upon via PM.

Why are you so aggressive? I was simply pointing out that you have a tendency to repeatedly create threads and posts with the same narrative that crypto is a bubble which is about to pop, despite many attempts by others to explain to you their reasoning for believing otherwise.

EDIT: And you are correct that many investors do not think about the taxation they will be exposed to and/or do not understand it. Just like many people selling services here live in lala land and believe their internet monies are not subject to tax or simply do their best to avoid it. That does not invalidate the premise behind Bitcoin or IM services though, does it?
 
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OnniChan

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Why are you so aggressive? I was simply pointing out that you have a tendency to repeatedly create threads and posts with the same narrative that crypto is a bubble which is about to pop, despite many attempts by others to explain to you their reasoning for believing otherwise.

For the same reason that you don't listen. You kept justifying your stuff, bending on words, when it is as it is... You were asking @Sherbert Hoover why he aggressive??? Go and take a look at how you were aggressive on your rebuttal to mine replies, telling me if it needs to be type.. Of course it needs to be mention bc obviously you seem to be in a dreamland where BTC is "perfect". You need to wake up!

"Some" = "most first world countries"

And what is wrong with i said? Why, arent banks printing monies out of precious metals?

Dude, try to research what is fiat. You don't seem to understand it.
 

roman375

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tb303

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And what is wrong with i said? Why, arent banks printing monies out of precious metals?

Dude, try to research what is fiat. You don't seem to understand it.

Nope I just checked. Its made out of some weird plastic & paper combination. But its got a picture of the Queen on so yay :)
 

John4life2017

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It's projected to go much much higher so you can still get in and cash out with a nice profit!
 

Sherb

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Why are you so aggressive? I was simply pointing out that you have a tendency to repeatedly create threads and posts with the same narrative that crypto is a bubble which is about to pop, despite many attempts by others to explain to you their reasoning for believing otherwise.

And I am totally cool with that. I have nothing against those speculating in crypto. I understand it plenty as well (please see Big Short watch count above). What I'm not a fan of are people who made some lucky speculations and made beaucoup gains (not profits, they are profits when the gainer sells and cashes out to a currency or account backed by something of value), and then attempt to push further speculation as factual or as some kind of "guarantee".

I understand that @PinguSpy has made incredible money in crypto. I understand that he appears to be BHW's resident crypto guru (although I much prefer @elavmunretea's more explanatory approach). But there has to be some balance between crypto hype-men and those who are more pessimistic and grounded. This isn't /r/bitcoin.

And crypto is a bubble. At least Bitcoin is, and surely any coin that becomes large enough. That's not pulled out of thin air. Even over the past month or so since I made the first "crypto is a bubble" thread, more and more and more and more experts are stating this as fact. And again, it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. If you spent any time looking under the surface instead of closing your eyes and riding the roller coaster up, you would see this.

There are plenty of articles against crypto being a bubble, but at the same time, the volume of information pushing towards crypto being a bubble is shifting overwhelmingly to a "yes", especially by industry and even crypto experts. Not "experts"... experts.

I am all for people making money. I'm also all for people getting excited over the possibilities of crypto. As I've stated MANY times, blockchain is incredible technology that will be world changing. But Bitcoin is not the future. Cryptocurrency as it is today is not the future. This shit is going to crash, and when it does there will be a lot of disgusted, naive people who speculated and bought because everyone else did, bought too much, and went beyond their means.

All the crypto forums, all the subreddits, they are all full of people just like this. "Just put $2,000 in NEO, betting it all". It's complete ignorance and disregard, and its being fueled by these survivorship-bias "look at all the money I made" brags. Hardheaded individuals who "studied for a few weeks" and made some good gambles and are suddenly finance Jesus.

Some of this shit is turning into straight up gambling addiction. The scary thing is that the barriers to entry are so low, and the purchase capabilities are so simple, that the most uneducated fools have no problem dumping money into this. It's sickening, and it's worsening by the day. If you would take off your rose-colored glasses, and actually look at what is happening, you would see that. I know most of my posts on this may seem like I'm kidding or antagonizing, but I promise you, I know what I'm talking about when it comes to overarching finance. It's not me Googling things to sound like I'm informed, just to try and play the devil's advocate.

And instead of actually discussing this, we are detracting from this by having arguments about whether or not fiat currency is backed by precious metals (@roman375 is right, by the way, fiat is backed by the government issuing the currency, and always has been, hence its definition), and whining about why people's points of view should be pushed to other locations.

If only a few people get out at the right time and don't try and ride the crash and end up in the red, I'd consider the time spent trying to inform people on here worthwhile. Stop trying to crush my opinions by lumping it into "that same narrative". I'm aggressive because I give a shit, and because I have information that is worth sharing.
 

Froz3nz

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We all wished this, but you have to take new opportunities. I invested into BTS some months ago, hope they will go up x100 lol.
 

PinguSpy

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Well i”m not a crypto guru.
And i never claimed that.
In fact, i kept mentioned that i still a noob in this crypto field.
 

MatthewGraham

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All the crypto forums, all the subreddits, they are all full of people just like this. "Just put $2,000 in NEO, betting it all". It's complete ignorance and disregard, and its being fueled by these survivorship-bias "look at all the money I made" brags. Hardheaded individuals who "studied for a few weeks" and made some good gambles and are suddenly finance Jesus.

Some of this shit is turning into straight up gambling addiction. The scary thing is that the barriers to entry are so low, and the purchase capabilities are so simple, that the most uneducated fools have no problem dumping money into this. It's sickening, and it's worsening by the day.

^ This.

If you know what you're doing and play your cards right you can make money trading crypto (not even dropping in a CCoin graph this time). And if you're one of those people, great.

Watching a YouTube video by someone named RonPaul420 and then putting on horse blinders is not playing your cards right regardless of whether or not BTC currently happens to be valued at more than what you paid for it initially.
 

roman375

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And I am totally cool with that. I have nothing against those speculating in crypto. I understand it plenty as well (please see Big Short watch count above). What I'm not a fan of are people who made some lucky speculations and made beaucoup gains (not profits, they are profits when the gainer sells and cashes out to a currency or account backed by something of value), and then attempt to push further speculation as factual or as some kind of "guarantee".

I understand that @PinguSpy has made incredible money in crypto. I understand that he appears to be BHW's resident crypto guru (although I much prefer @elavmunretea's more explanatory approach). But there has to be some balance between crypto hype-men and those who are more pessimistic and grounded. This isn't /r/bitcoin.

And crypto is a bubble. At least Bitcoin is, and surely any coin that becomes large enough. That's not pulled out of thin air. Even over the past month or so since I made the first "crypto is a bubble" thread, more and more and more and more experts are stating this as fact. And again, it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. If you spent any time looking under the surface instead of closing your eyes and riding the roller coaster up, you would see this.

There are plenty of articles against crypto being a bubble, but at the same time, the volume of information pushing towards crypto being a bubble is shifting overwhelmingly to a "yes", especially by industry and even crypto experts. Not "experts"... experts.

I am all for people making money. I'm also all for people getting excited over the possibilities of crypto. As I've stated MANY times, blockchain is incredible technology that will be world changing. But Bitcoin is not the future. Cryptocurrency as it is today is not the future. This shit is going to crash, and when it does there will be a lot of disgusted, naive people who speculated and bought because everyone else did, bought too much, and went beyond their means.

All the crypto forums, all the subreddits, they are all full of people just like this. "Just put $2,000 in NEO, betting it all". It's complete ignorance and disregard, and its being fueled by these survivorship-bias "look at all the money I made" brags. Hardheaded individuals who "studied for a few weeks" and made some good gambles and are suddenly finance Jesus.

Some of this shit is turning into straight up gambling addiction. The scary thing is that the barriers to entry are so low, and the purchase capabilities are so simple, that the most uneducated fools have no problem dumping money into this. It's sickening, and it's worsening by the day. If you would take off your rose-colored glasses, and actually look at what is happening, you would see that. I know most of my posts on this may seem like I'm kidding or antagonizing, but I promise you, I know what I'm talking about when it comes to overarching finance. It's not me Googling things to sound like I'm informed, just to try and play the devil's advocate.

And instead of actually discussing this, we are detracting from this by having arguments about whether or not fiat currency is backed by precious metals (@roman375 is right, by the way, fiat is backed by the government issuing the currency, and always has been, hence its definition), and whining about why people's points of view should be pushed to other locations.

If only a few people get out at the right time and don't try and ride the crash and end up in the red, I'd consider the time spent trying to inform people on here worthwhile. Stop trying to crush my opinions by lumping it into "that same narrative". I'm aggressive because I give a shit, and because I have information that is worth sharing.

I think the crux of the disagreement here is that one side, you amongst them, believes that crypto currency in its current form is not the future and will most definitely crash and the other side that either thinks it has the potential to become a globally accepted "currency" (I use the term here very loosely) or firmly/blindly believe it will become that.

I believe it has the potential to become a globally accepted digital currency. I do not however think this is a guarantee by any means. As I have mentioned in many other posts, there are many risks and challenges on its way there, any of which can potentially destroy it. The fact is, no one truly knows and claiming with absolute certainty one or the other is speculation in itself.

I do, however, believe that there will be a significant correction. Anyone can look at the graph and see the parabolic curve, which in many forms of traditional investments is always followed by a correction. But until the fundamentals change, that is what it will, in my opinion, be: a correction, not a market collapse.

Finally, anyone investing their life's savings into crypto is foolish. This remains an extremely risky form of investment fueled largely by speculation of what it could be, not by what it currently is. But I would disagree with you on the sentiment that crypto folk are telling everyone to throw all of their money at crypto. Excepting a few bad apples, the prevailing sentiment that I have seen is to invest only what you can afford to lose. And where is the harm in that? As long as you are knowingly risking an amount that you are comfortable with losing, you are potentially putting yourself in a position to benefit greatly from it should cryptos continue in the same fashion.

EDIT: Just to clarify something. When I say I think Bitcoin (or some other crypto) has the potential to become a globally accepted currency, I do not mean it will replace fiat completely. You would have to be pretty naive to think governments will willingly replace their financial instruments of leverage for a decentralised deflationary currency.
 
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jer0me

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This gives me a "1929 Wall Street Crash" kind of feeling. Please be smart guys...
 

NagacomesforU

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I cashed out at 9.7k. I see normies bringing new cash and therefore the inevitable correction coming (panic sellers) . Probably 8k will be the wall. Got out at a safe spot. Could have held longer but better cash out before the correction happens.
 

KHer0

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Why are you so aggressive? I was simply pointing out that you have a tendency to repeatedly create threads and posts with the same narrative that crypto is a bubble which is about to pop, despite many attempts by others to explain to you their reasoning for believing otherwise.

Yes he does.. You gotta wait 1 more month to get his the third thread about Bitcoin is a bubble waiting to burst, then it will go to 15K, then he will talk about bubble theory again, and again, and again

I thought he would stop after the first one, but looks like he is pretty good at reading the future. Maybe after 30 years, when something bigger and better comes, he will write a thread about how he was right about the 103 bubble thread :D... If this is a bubble, then this the biggest bubble I have ever seen!!!!
 

loclhero

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how can i invest in bitcoin any idea

Lots of places but coinbase.com is probably the most popular. Don't do this with money you can't afford to lose. I'm just about ready to invest about $10k (should have done it in January!) but watching the valuation today and it's been dropping since this morning when it hit 11k so I'm not quite ready to pull the trigger.
 

zionbar

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I did some crypto investment. I kept close and only did BTC, ETH, and LTC. Made some money and cashed out well before this big spike. I'm happy with my returns and trying not to FOMO it by thinking about "what could have been".

I got out due to the lack of stability and the insane volatility. If you're fine with taking risks and have plenty of disposable income, go for it. I know I preach anti-crypto pretty strongly around here, and I firmly believe that there will be a massive and drastic plunge. But when, I have no idea. Anyone who claims to know is blowing smoke up your ass.

There are a lot of armchair investors who are speculating more than actually investing, and following what the crowds think is best. Like I've said, most of this is all pump and dump cash grabs.

I'm looking for low risk longevity. But I'm risk averse, and I'm not a teenager any more.

100% with you bro, I was about to ignore the BTC thing but then I heard walmart and best buy are now accepting BTC (!!!) so I need to take a more careful look into it

Appreciate your input!
 
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