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Blackhatting and the moral dilemma

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by Adrian79, Feb 24, 2014.

  1. Adrian79

    Adrian79 Junior Member

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    I'm relatively new to blackhat tactics... at least in terms of implementing them. I've read a lot but I finally made the jump a day ago. I only made $5 yesterday but I think this method could definitely be scaled and it's just a matter of me figuring out the most cost effective way of going about it and I'm sure as I tweak it performance will continue to improve.

    I've had moments where I question if what I'm doing is right ethically and I guess I know deep down I know it's not right but I'm hoping it's just a temporary thing for me. I'm trying to build a legit biz and I'm trying to find a way to put money in to this biz and support myself while I build the biz. I feel like BH methods are the only way I can start to produce the kind of money I need in a relatively short amount of time.

    I'm not doing anything that costs an individual person money... it takes some of their time... maybe 10-15 minutes but it obviously is costing advertisers money. The advertisers whom it's costing money are billion dollar businesses in most cases (or $100 million+) and the industry they operate in is ruthless and screwing people over is a constant.

    I guess I'm just wondering if any of the other blackhatters run in to a moral dilemma at any points. I know there are quite a few people on here who are highly intelligent and who could obviously run a completely legit biz.

    I'm also wondering if any blackhatters have done what I'm trying to do. Use blackhat to fund a legit business.
     
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  2. Don Corleone

    Don Corleone Newbie

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    I'm still a student and I try to make some good money in my college years so that when i'm finished I can start my own business. But I get what you mean you are fooling people who are not that internet savvy. Or at least that is what I do sometimes. However I don't rip money from them I just point them in the good direction ;).

    I don't know what it is exactly that you do but I wouldn't worry too much about it. If it keeps you awake at night I should quit though. If you feel bad about abusing networks like facebook or google or something in terms of spam or ignoring their Tos or whatever I definitely wouldn't worry they harass people all the time with their monopoly.
     
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  3. Adrian79

    Adrian79 Junior Member

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    Every once and awhile it'll bother me for some reason but not too bad.
     
  4. hitman247

    hitman247 Executive VIP Premium Member

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    Are you talking about Blackhat or fraud?
     
  5. Tensegrity

    Tensegrity Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    You aren't responsible for the stupid decisions people make when they use the internet. As long as you aren't asking for money and disappearing after the transaction, you're not a scammer. Marketing is about getting the word out about a product or service. Sales is about convincing someone to buy something they may or may not have intended on buying before you showed up. Both are legit and legal.

    A scammer says you'll get something for your money and then doesn't deliver. Just don't be a scammer and try to pay attention to TOS of websites to get an idea as to what types of marketing will work and for what amount of time it'll work before you get banned, and you'll be fine.
     
  6. Adrian79

    Adrian79 Junior Member

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    The definition per Google for Fraud is, "wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain".

    Wrongful is a pretty vague term. Aren't a good number of blackhatters using methods that could be considered wrong for their own financial gain?
     
  7. JustUs

    JustUs Power Member

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    The real issue is that morals are situational. As an example:

    You are out walking in the country and see someone walk under a natural bridge. Say then a rock, due to nature, falls on the person and kills them.

    Is it good, bad, or neutral?

    Say it is a friend or loved one?
    Say it is an enemy that has your death as his/her goal?
    Say it is someone that you have never seen before?

    Note how your response changes with each situation when the rock falling and killing the person is a completely neutral event. Morals are situational as the above example illustrates.
     
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  8. keadams26

    keadams26 Regular Member

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    Exactly! Some folks think about what they're doing and that is usually a checkpoint for your moral compass. If you are having doubts about it being ethical, it probably isn't. Your moral compass isn't totally f*cked and thats a good thing.
     
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  9. MafiaBoss

    MafiaBoss Elite Member

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    As long as you are doing nothing illegal you are good. Chill Up
     
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  10. spacezeus

    spacezeus Power Member

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    It isn't about illegal. Even if it's legal, it is immoral.

    I've been doing blackhat ever since, and I thought about going legit everyday. But it's difficult because I'm already earning enough money and lazy to start something else. Hopefully, I'll go whitehat one day. I wasn't feel great about doing it even if I earns billions. Well it's just my thought, after all, I'm also a blackhatters :)

    confession_bear_meme.jpg
     
  11. Adrian79

    Adrian79 Junior Member

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    I think it's more a grey area and I want to transition it over to be 100% legit but I need to raise the funds to get there if that makes any sense. I appreciate the responses.
     
  12. xha44a

    xha44a Power Member

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    Generally people here consider Blackhat to be attempting to manipulate Google's rankings for their benefits. Morality doesn't really enter into the question with that. If you think of Blackhat as fraud/scamming people - then possibly yes. Building links to move up the Google ladder is neither moral or immoral.
     
  13. tony_d

    tony_d Elite Member

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    The moral dilemma? What moral dilemma?
     
  14. srb888

    srb888 Elite Member

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    Google:
    legal blackhat methods

    Try some of those and enjoy peaceful rests. If anyone or your own mind pokes you then show the result pages to him/it.

    BTW,
    When Google exposes product download pages in its serps, is it cheating the owners of those products? Does Matt Cutts lose his sleep over it?
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2014
  15. Oukast

    Oukast Senior Member

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    I hear this from the hookers I go with all the time. Just sayin'...
     
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  16. Adrian79

    Adrian79 Junior Member

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    I think that's the best comment I've ever read
     
  17. hitman247

    hitman247 Executive VIP Premium Member

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    Your example makes ZERO sense. Morals are how an individual conforms to the rules of conduct. That has absolutely NOTHING to do with something happening to someone by complete chance or how you feel about a particular situation.
     
  18. JustUs

    JustUs Power Member

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    Your sociology needs work. You are confusing morals with mores.

    mo·res (môr′āz′, -ēz, mōr′-)
    pl.n.
    1. The accepted traditional customs and usages of a particular social group.
    2. Moral attitudes.
    3. Manners; ways.

    mores (ˈmɔːreɪz)
    pl n
    1. (Sociology) sociol the customs and conventions embodying the fundamental values of a group or society
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/mores

    mor·al (môr′əl, mŏr′-)
    adj.
    1. Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character: moral scrutiny; a moral quandary.
    2. Teaching or exhibiting goodness or correctness of character and behavior: a moral lesson.
    3. Conforming to standards of what is right or just in behavior; virtuous: a moral life.
    4. Arising from conscience or the sense of right and wrong: a moral obligation.
    5. Having psychological rather than physical or tangible effects: a moral victory; moral support.
    6. Based on strong likelihood or firm conviction, rather than on the actual evidence: a moral certainty.
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/morals

    If you have a greater interest read:
    http://myweb.lmu.edu/jkonow/Morals and Mores.pdf
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2014
  19. hitman247

    hitman247 Executive VIP Premium Member

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    I assure you I am better educated than you are junior.

    Your example is poor one - so just accept it and move on.
     
  20. JustUs

    JustUs Power Member

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    I guess I will have to assure you of one thing: He that resorts to insult has lost the argument.

    Since you completely missed the entire issue, "Mores" are the foundational societal rules while "Morals" are the philosophy after those mores or societal values. How you interpret a completely neutral value is a societal teaching that applies the philosophy rather than the rule.

    But if you do not like the previous example, then try this one that is in the same vein.

    A person gets into a car wreck and dies.

    Good, Bad, Neutral?

    What if the person were a serial killer?
    What if the person were a philanthropist?
    What if the person were your friend or lover?
    What if the person were drunk or high?
    What if the person only killed them self?
    What if the person killed several other people in the wreck?
    What if the person were not the cause of the wreck?
    And so on.

    Morals are the societal rule or "More" colored by the persons world view and nothing more. As a paradigm of the person, morals are as situational as the person and society that person is a part of are. Morals are a judgement of the application of the more and not the more. This is why people like Jim Jones (Jonestown, Guyana) could kill, or if you wish order the death, of almost a 1000 people in the practice of religion even though the more of that religion proscribes killing. It is also the reason that people like Joshua Powell could immolate himself and his children, and that the Chechen warlords, Shamil Salmanovich Basayev and Ramzan Akhmadovich Kadyrov who were tried for war crimes, could ruthlessly commit so many human rights violations and kill so many.

    You need not respond because your insult has already shown that you do not really understand what you are attempting to convey.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2014