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Blackhat vs Whitehat

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by Blueprint, Sep 26, 2011.

  1. Blueprint

    Blueprint Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Hi guys, not here posted for a while. Been busy with projects. One tip from my recent experience is stick to one method, or a single niche and make it work. I made some great money and then the method totally dried up... I then set about chasing 100 other ideas and websites... tried about 10% of a method and moved on, not a great move...

    BHW is full of awesome ideas all which can make good money, but it can cause you procrastinate, and to put 10% into each one, not focusing on one specific project. That gets us no where. Focus is needed on your chosen method.

    I'd been trying so many different methods all just "a little bit" and I wasn't really banking (we're talking a few dollars a day and maybe then the odd $100 a day) but nothing steady, and nothing which was going to allow me to retire on. Money was leaking out and I needed a fix.

    The key I've found (just lately) is to focus on your one specific method 100% and push to make it work... I looked at a site I had built a while back and focused and worked on just that for a week and now it's started to bring in more and more money...

    I know it sounds obvious, but "just do it" isn't always enough, you can just do each new method posted on BHW each day and make $0, as someone will be doing it 100% with absolute focus and that single method alone.

    Do it, focus, and plan is the key! Doing 100 things at once isn't the way forward... I've learned the hard way.... Focus on the one thing you know will work and forget all the ebooks, new methods etc. This is just going to distract you. Stick to pushing your chosen path forwards...

    Anyway after finding all of this out the hard way, my funds are all but dried up :( and I may have to look at getting a full time job again :( (rubbish I know) but I gotta pay the bills...

    The reason for this thread is that in the "corporate world" the bridge between blackhat vs whitehat seems to have gotten much closer.

    Example: Using SENuke to register web 2.0 properties.

    I know this is a broad question, but with "link building" strategies, and planning out a link building method for a large corporate website, I found that explaining linking strategies in a job interview sounded quite blackhat, but the interviewers didn't seem to think so...

    A large C class link network
    Link Wheels
    Link Pryamids
    Link Farm Evolution link farms

    In the corporate world I know these methods are done and used by agencies and large websites, but, is it the "norm" now?

    I would still class blackhat as:
    xrumer blasts
    scrapebox AA posting
    Forum backlinks (angela & pauls backlinks)

    But these more "blackhat" methods applied to a spoke of a large link wheel could aid a more "whitehat" method and improve ranking OR is all of the above considered "blackhat"?

    What I'd consider whitehat, time consuming and pretty ineffective is

    Whitehat:
    Posting good articles
    Article syndication
    Link baiting
    Natural link building

    Since Panda does no one care for the blackhat vs whitehat divide any more, or are the two crossing?

    Would you add more to these two lists? What are your thoughts?

    Sorry for the mega post with multiple questions.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2011
  2. Neetasha

    Neetasha Newbie

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    In Blackhat seo is used to get higher search engine rankings.
    In whitehat seo is frequently used by those who intend to make a long term investment in our website.we have to improve the computer security ans in search engine follow some rules and regulations.
     
  3. jascoken

    jascoken Senior Member

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    I think the bottom line is that the line between black/white hat is getting more 'Grey' all the time, as you've insinuated...

    If you stick to Google's philosophy then anything short of brand-new content on your sites with brand-new articles linking in, is black-hat.

    Today, many of the best working methods are black-hat tools used in a slightly more controlled white/grey hat way. Use good quality content (and always keep money/key site content 'clean' and unspun/copied) - but use spinning properly to extend it's reach and keep your 1st tier links clean - avoid ultra-spammy sources.

    Black-hat methods are used for tier 2> links. Since they're pointed at other properties, and not your important sites, you've protected yourself.

    Massive 'untidy' Link-wheels work very well. And developing your own software/systems/tools are a good way of avoiding other people's SEO fingerprints.

    'True' White-Hat is essentially dead from a marketing perspective. Sure, you may get a page 1 for a low-volume long-tail EMD, but if you're fighting in a bigger pond, then grey-black hat is the ONLY option now.
     
  4. Blueprint

    Blueprint Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Thanks Jascoken, good answer, nice to hear someone confirm what I also believe, the fact blackhat is now main stream, more-over as you put it... White-Hat is essentially dead.

    Good discussion.

    Would you xrumer spam, Scrapebox spam, Forum and Profile backlink spam a spoke of a messy link wheel linking back to your money site with no worries?
     
  5. jascoken

    jascoken Senior Member

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    It's always a difficult topic to bring up with an SEO client; the public perceive black-hat to mean all the negative connotations associated with it - including hacking and illegal activity. So I always refer to techniques as grey-hat and explain what I mean.

    The fact is, you cannot build links with even a moderate gusto without using black-hat tools. My favourites are AMR, X-Rumer (and automated X-rumer services like dripable.com etc) I'm still waiting to find a large scale social bookmarking system that doesn't take forever to manage - like BMD does. I'd love an AMR equivalent for social bookmarking and profile creation. I'm dabbling with trying Profile Like Robot too. I've never liked SENuke - but that's just me. We also use a HUGE amount of internal tools and software - most written by me - as I come from a software development background (and I'm going to be launching some of these to the public soon.) Mostly stuff to support/leverage the power of other systems like AMR/Spinning/scraping/URL processing etc.

    There's no doubt that these services will generate junk/spam links, so I wouldn't use them en-masse to my money-sites (although I do do a little - just to mix up the link profile - and I've never experienced any problems on domains over 1 year old that have had regular link-building.) I would use these tools for 2nd and 3rd tier links generally, except AMR -which I use exclusively for building tier 1 money-site links. I then use these as the first tier of a link-wheel and build around 10 links per article at 2nd tier and then sometimes 10 links per 2nd tier link for 3rd tier. I dump all the 2nd and 3rd tier links into NLC/linklicious spread over 14 days or more for gradual crawling.

    I also do SEO for multiple domains each time with spinning: I wouldn't send out a single blast to 1 different site each day for 20 days for instance; I'd spread a blast over 20 domains and do it every day for 20 days - so that each site was getting a 1/20th of the links each day. This gives a really random, gradual link velocity. I own the SEO company that runs BacklinkBanzai.com (among others, and BTW, I'll be launching an affiliate program for BacklinkBanzai on BHW soon,) and so we've done a massive amount of ongoing research into this over the last 4-5 years to rank our own properties - of which we have about 500 discrete domains, with around 3k promoted pages - so we've got a LOT of money pages to build! We build tens of thousands of links each day - and you can't do that - for 3000 money pages - without grey/black hat methods.

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2011
  6. BlackhatBigfoot

    BlackhatBigfoot Regular Member

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    If ever the old adage that "nice guys finish last" is true, whitehat SEO is proves it.
     
  7. Blueprint

    Blueprint Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    I agree, I mean the fact black hat tools are almost required to get decent ranking is in my opinion why Google are looking to take the more "social" aspect into their ranking algo eventually.

    If you code I'd suggest to look to build something that really utilizes that.

    That's awesome man that you own that site, also great you have a process as to doing things... It can all sometimes be a little overkill when you're as inquisitive as me.

    I'm a quick learner, and far from a computer n00b, I use Linux for example. Problems I face is that I always have 100 things on the go at once, but regarding my original statement in my first post of this thread is that this doesn't always help things. I'd love to be able to code, and I mean hard core code, I always have 100s of ideas.

    I too own around 400 URLS and domains, and looking to finally build a decent network from these (potentially Adsense monetize), but doing "a little" to each domain one at a time has never helped much.

    Nice highlighting the process taken, but then again, I know large SEO firms claiming large clients won't be utilising these processes due to their "black hat nature"... so surprises me that the niche "black hat" is still so "underground" or seemingly so...