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[ASK] When Is It No Longer Morally Right To Make Money?

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by xXShaddowTXx, Feb 18, 2012.

  1. xXShaddowTXx

    xXShaddowTXx Registered Member

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    I'm 16 years old and have a fairly basic knowledge of referring members to GPT sites. I don't have the best knowledge of SEO but I am learning. This thread does not have to do with the SEO aspect of the different hats. just the advertising aspect. How marketers tells a story to intrigue potential buyers.

    I've been having a discussion with someone over the internet lately about Black, White, and Grey hats and the morality of a salesmen (the person making websites, or the advertisements in this case).

    From what I gather (please correct me if I am wrong)

    Black hat: Advertisers that use lies to get people to sign up, buy a product, etc. There is no limit to what they will tell you to get you to buy something.

    White hat: Someone who tries to be honest, doesn't lie, under promises over delivers.

    Grey hat: Someone who doesn't promise anything but sets forth assumptions making you think they are promising something. Basically they are deceiving

    Those are a very basic summery I think. My question is this:

    When is it that you lose your moral values and shrink down to not knowing what is right and wrong?

    When you start advertising or selling you think okay I'll push the boundaries here and there but after a while you get comfortable with it and push them a little more, rinse and repeat until pretty soon what you are doing is just.. evil. Like McDonald's advertisments suggesting their Kid's meals are healthy through subtle things like the kids running, showing the lettuce, carrots, etc.

    Does it ever get to a point where your moral values of what is right and wrong change and you believe what was once completely evil in your opinion of a salesman to do is now perfectly fine?

    If you think back to when you first started IM, when you first got into the idea of selling things online to make money or getting people to register for an affiliate site, were your moral values of right and wrong in advertising different?

    I'm kind of confused. I don't want to lose my moral values in right and wrong, I don't want to become what I hate in marketing. Please, can someone clear up all of this and define what Black, White, and Grey hats are more clearly in this sense? I don't want to lie in order to sell something.
     
  2. Dubtube

    Dubtube BANNED BANNED

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    This moral you speak of... does it taste good?
     
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  3. lukas76

    lukas76 BANNED BANNED

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    That is a kind of hard question to ask someone else... You have to dig inside yourself to find the real answer... Just sit down and clear your mind and think on things about IM'ng and think about what kind of person you think you are. Think of YOU, not your name, age, race, ethnicity, or country of birth.

    Hope i helped :)
     
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  4. xXShaddowTXx

    xXShaddowTXx Registered Member

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    That is why I'm asking. It is a hard question and I know it's one that only I can determine the answer to. I'm mainly trying to see what other people think on this.. point of view.

    Thank you very much for your post btw.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2012
  5. bertbaby

    bertbaby Elite Member

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    Quote: Black hat: Advertisers that use lies to get people to sign up, buy a product, etc. There is no limit to what they will tell you to get you to buy something.

    Not quite true, many Black Hat techniques involve manipulating the Google SERP algorithm and the Facebook monopolies and the arbitrary rules they can set as defacto monopolies. I have never persuaded anyone to buy anything by either good or bad means yet I'm considered Black Hat because of my site marketing techniques. It's a badge of honor I wear proudly.

    Grasshopper the world really is shades of grey not black and white.
     
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  6. xXShaddowTXx

    xXShaddowTXx Registered Member

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    That makes sense. I wasn't talking about the SEO but indeed the way you market under the black hat.

    Is there any honest hat? Any kind of marketing that doesn't just blatantly lie to their consumers? Does anyone here have an opinion on the matter of losing your moral restrictions over time?
     
  7. illfounded21

    illfounded21 Senior Member

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    Marketing and ethics is commonly seen as a contradictory of terms...
     
  8. ursam

    ursam Newbie

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    Good post
     
  9. bertbaby

    bertbaby Elite Member

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    Not necessarily true, I'm a professional marketer having worked at numerous Fortune 1000 companies, yes you would recognize the names, and I sleep very well at night. You don't have to be unethical to market and sell product. The bigger issue is what are you selling?
     
  10. zebrahat

    zebrahat Elite Member

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    SOME versions of aggressive marketing are hypey and fraudulent, be they BH or WH, and other types of aggressive marketing are truthful and realistic, be they BH or WH. On the absolute scale any marketing technique or subject that necessarily involves or advocates 'sin' as historically or preponderantly understood, is an immoral way to make money.

    Selling pedophilia would be one example, as it is an immoral subject. Marketing a "safe" car that you know has no brakes installed would be another, as you have to lie and endanger the public's health in order to promote it. Etc.
     
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  11. xXShaddowTXx

    xXShaddowTXx Registered Member

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    I see what you mean.

    What I gather is that the different type of hats have no connection to how you advertise the product in your wording of an article simply SEO. And no matter which hat your SEO is you can still choose to be an honest merchant, not lying in order to make money?
     
  12. illfounded21

    illfounded21 Senior Member

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    I understand your point, but I wasn't necessarily saying that was my viewpoint. However, for a lot of people marketing is seen (in their eyes) to be a contradiction to being ethical.
     
  13. xXShaddowTXx

    xXShaddowTXx Registered Member

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    How does everyone feel about under promise over deliver? Do you do this in your advertising tactics?
     
  14. hamish11

    hamish11 Regular Member

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    Don't you mean: over promise, under deliver? It would great if everyone could under promise and over deliver! As far as the Black/White/Grey hat label goes, I hang those names on the types of techniques used to drive traffic, and not whether you are lying/telling the truth about a product.
     
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  15. WizGizmo

    WizGizmo Super Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    You will know it is no longer right
    when your conscience tells you so.

    Different people have different lines
    they will not cross. Everyone has
    different moral values. Who's right?
    Who's wrong? . . . Who knows? :)
     
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  16. sirgold

    sirgold Supreme Member

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    Hard to draw the ultimate line for everybody, morally speaking... It's generally your subjective call.

    A number of larger corporations are making billions off schemes that would certainly be deemed illegal or fraudulent if made at a smaller level, so not only morally but also legally where you'd expect more objective evaluations and judgments, it's a bit of a shifting target.
     
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  17. THEPROGAMER

    THEPROGAMER Newbie

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    "Feel before your act"..... and remember. no matter how mush many you have made. you won't get to take it with you when you die. Only Your deeds that can help you at the end :closed_2:.
     
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  18. xXShaddowTXx

    xXShaddowTXx Registered Member

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    Thank you all very much for posting your thoughts in this thread. I've thanked the posts and I want you all to know I really appreciate it. All today for me this was a very very serious thought I was having about weather or not to continue learning IM because of this. I've decided to continue and trust my instincts and be skeptical about anything I do before I do it and really think about the morality of the situation. Thank you again.

    Also, it is shocking to see how many important members have posted in here even though the thread was made by a newbie with 0 posts. Thank you for actually taking the time to read my thread!
     
  19. RTM77

    RTM77 Junior Member

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    Yes tasty morsels of morals are delicious. If it makes you feel better OP why not research whatever you promote to ensure that their is no subtle deception, even then what's keeping the people being advertised to from decieving themselves. I like to think that blackhats teach people lessons concerning being a naive sheep and even though money cannot be used while dead what's wrong with providing for yourself and teaching someone an important lesson that keeps them cautious and wary of real wolves.
     
  20. ryanjm

    ryanjm Junior Member

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    I never promote any product without being 100% honest with my visitors. From what I can tell, this is a rarity with most IM'rs. Most affiliate sites I see are shit content spewing out either outright lies or talking about a product they've never researched beyond reading the sales copy. That's not how I do things, and after a little over a year in this business I'm earning more than most in this game.

    It's completely up to you how you want to run your sites and market your products. You don't have to be a scumbag to make a lot of money. In fact, I would argue that the best long-term strategy is to actually provide real value to your visitors, and do whatever it takes to get your rankings.

    When I think of black/grey/white hat stuff, I'm thinking mostly of linking strats. Personally I'd stick with grey and white if you don't want to always have to worry about your sites tanking because G catches on to the latest and greatest shady linking technique. But morals have nothing to do with gaming G's system.
     
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