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Are Financial gurus and investment gurus - scammers?

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by BlackSeng, Jun 30, 2011.

  1. BlackSeng

    BlackSeng Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Now that we all know how IM works, we get to see the other side of the coin.

    For instance, all the "IM gurus" basically rewrite and sell crappy products claiming that it made them millions. But of course, those whom are buying the products are making them the millions instead.

    Then I begin to wonder about the same with financial gurus and investment gurus. I mean, aren't they the easiest to bullshit about?
    I've been studying about technical analysis and fundamental analysis for stocks... I realize one could easily bullshit their way out. I can take out a stupid chart and say this and that because it has already happened. If the chart doesn't work the way I want it, I could just find other chart and use it to convince readers.
    I mean, if their 'method' or indicators are making them millions, wouldn't they just keep it a secret?

    The only good example I can see is Warren Buffet. He never writes a book telling others how to pick good stocks, he only recommend others to read his mentor's books (Security Analysis, and the intelligent investor).

    What's your opinion? Aren't we all living in a world of lies?

    I guess the information age, you can simply bullshit your way to riches. LOL
     
  2. fred7

    fred7 Regular Member

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    Warren Buffett never write a book about investing but you can learn his way of thinking by reading his annual report for his shareholders.

    Actually there is no perfect system for investing or trading so the most important thing you should apply in investing/trading are money management. So you can cut your loss when you're wrong and you can get high return when you're right..

    There are so many financial "Gurus" who take trading system from other people's book and they reshare it to newbies with high price. So the best we can do is read good investing books then use the money to practice what you've learnt, instead of pay them to teach you.

    My recommendation is to read Alexander Elder's Trading for a Living and William J O'Neil's How to Make Money in Stocks..
     
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  3. xhpdx

    xhpdx Regular Member

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    I tend to stay away from gurus who will teach me how to make money make be it with IM/forex/stocks/whatever. Of course there will always be some genuine people, but they are too small fishes swimming in a ocean full of sharks.
     
  4. SpareTimeBillionaire

    SpareTimeBillionaire Registered Member

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    Of course they are... I was one myself for a while but I got bored of answering dumb questions from the suckers who believed me and weren't getting rich on Forex!
    :beach2(2)
     
  5. fred7

    fred7 Regular Member

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    So you're an ex-scammer, aren't you? Correct me if I'm wrong
     
  6. SpareTimeBillionaire

    SpareTimeBillionaire Registered Member

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    How very dare you ;) I consider my sales patter to have been most modest in comparison to many of the products out there! The problem is people expect magic bullets and there aren't any...
     
  7. fred7

    fred7 Regular Member

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    Ooo then you're not a scammer. You're a scammer only if in reality you can't make money from financial instrument ;)
     
  8. scraper1

    scraper1 Regular Member

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    Bernard Madoff, middle name Ponzi, stock broker, investment advisor, the blackest hat of them all. Seems to be your answer.
     
  9. SpareTimeBillionaire

    SpareTimeBillionaire Registered Member

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    Actually I'd just like to say (in my defence) that I still use my tools an indicator and expert advisor for my own mini lot trading but the gross return has been in the region 6-10% per annum over the last five or six years, better than a bank but not good enough for a ClickBank customer! And, I will not sell it or give it to anybody :p
     
  10. fred7

    fred7 Regular Member

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    Good enough :)
    I manage my family's fund and get about 6-8%/month, it's simple just use simple indicators and apply stop loss not more than 2 percent of your total account :)
     
  11. trtru

    trtru Newbie

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    If you think that the IM and Financial Gurus are Scammers spend some time and Zerohedge and see who the real scammers are. Wall Street and the Gov scam people with out them knowing.
     
  12. ScrapeBoss

    ScrapeBoss Elite Member Premium Member

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    Thanks for tips. I know those books are good. One of them has more than 300 pages. I have no time to read.

     
  13. thetvnun

    thetvnun Power Member

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    i don't think its called scamming at that level. for example, the national association of realtors commends agents who sell property for more than its fair market value. it is one of the criteria by which they determine who will sit on their board.

    i think all industries are just as corrupt. in the loan industry for example we often finance the borrowers closing costs. we can go as high as 6% over the loan amount so that a loan of $300k will give us $18k to play with. the buyers closing costs will be 5k and we keep the rest.

    i remember buying a case a of oil for the ferrari, it had like 12 quarts and it cost $90.00 - i asked the showroom guy if it was any different than regular oil, he said "of course it is, it's got the fuckin horse on it doesn't it"?

    on the housing side it's the same thing. a buyer and seller think there is an intense negotiation going on. really the agens have already decided the final purchase price. if the seller counters at $550k we tell the buyer the seller countered at 575k, "but i slammed him down to $550k" for you mr buyer. even though we know we had it locked up at $530k.

    we also don't hire appraisers who do not verbally agree to "bring in the value" at what we tell them. if they don't do it they wont get the job. usually we have them bring it in at 10% higher than the agreed price so the buyer feels good, and the seller is not permitted to see the appraisal anyway unless the buyer agrees.

    the media really suck at telling the behind the scenes stories. i remember selling a walgreens building to an investor flying in from dubai. i had to go to the building the night before and give all the homeless people money and booze to leave. in commercial real estate we are also required to provide racial demographics within a 5 mile radius, which is strange because that would be called "redlining" in residential real estate.

    everything i said sounds corrupt, but it is the industry standard. an average commission on a nice building is $100k, so it is not uncommon to 'offer' $10k-$20k under the table to a developer in exchange for a decent listing.

    i think black hat is much less corrupt than most industries.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 2, 2011
  14. fred7

    fred7 Regular Member

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    Hi Scrapeboss but it's worth to read if you want to know more about trading :)

    anybody just ask me about stock trading and investment, I will try to help you all :)
     
  15. ScrapeBoss

    ScrapeBoss Elite Member Premium Member

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    Thanks a lot. I will start little by little. The thought of the number of pages makes me afraid most time. :D

     
  16. thetvnun

    thetvnun Power Member

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    i would like to ask about trading oil options. i traded heating oil option for awhile, but i never knew what i was doing. my basic question/concern is that the option will be "excercised", everywhere i research says the same thing "it's possible, but it doesn't happen". i've always been terrified of this and really i stopped trading out of this concern.
     
  17. fred7

    fred7 Regular Member

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    Hello thetvnun I don't really know about oil options but I know that options would be exercised if in the expiration day your options stay in-the-money (below your strike price if you buy call options, or above strike price if you buy put options). But the oil price volatility is high for now so I recommend you to not trading this kind of instrument this time. Practice more and when you could profit consistently trading low-volatile product, you could try something more volatile like oil, tech stocks.

    :)
     
  18. scarface

    scarface Newbie

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    Trading for a Living is a pretty good read. Read it twice actually.
     
  19. fred7

    fred7 Regular Member

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    Almost forgot, for thetvnun the best book about options (in my opinion) is Options as a Strategic Investment by Lawrence Mcmillan. Or if you want to learn more about options strategies (straddle, butterfly, etc) just read Guy Cohen's the Bible of Options Strategies..
     
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  20. ScrapeBoss

    ScrapeBoss Elite Member Premium Member

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    I have the 2004 edition of Options as a Strategic Investment by Lawrence Mcmillan

     
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