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Anyone w/ a fulltime job [help plz]

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by SpellZ, Aug 7, 2009.

  1. SpellZ

    SpellZ Regular Member

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    Hi guys, how are you all doing?

    Although I have a small question which ugh... I'm struggling with! And it was like this for the past 3 days.
    I end up thinking about it in the shower, or till 4am in my bed, or while I'm watching TV.

    My problem is this...

    I am 19, I will be going for my 3rd year of college.
    By the time I'm 30, 35, 40 I REALLY hope to own my company and retire (don't we all?)
    But I also want a rewarding company, and an interesting career to go with it.

    First I want thinking of going with WordPress web design. I find the customers and talk to them, get them so sign a
    website with me for a minimum of $500. Out of those 500, $300 will go for the guy to code it from .PSD to WordPress
    and $200 to me for doing the template. I hate coding so I can't do all of it. The template will take me 2 hours TOPS! So $100/hour
    is pretty good... but then I started to do a little bit of math to see how many sites I need to make in order to make
    AT LEAST $5000/month. Turns out I need to make 25 websites a month in order to make $5000/month, which is horrible! Because
    there is no way that for 10 years of my life I can make template after template with only 7 days of rest.

    So pretty fast that idea was canned. I mean sure there are exceptions.. I know Flash, and I can (and did) Flash websites.
    They go for a lot more, they go for around $1000 - $3000/site but that means I need to create 5 sites a month, meaning
    that I need to start on a new site every 5-6 days, which is also crazy! Flash is a bit complicated and also has a lot of programming.

    I also do very well in Photoshop. Especially photo manipulation. Like changing hair, eyes, faces, making the photos look good, etc.
    But its REALLY hard to find a rewarding job at it, and then starting your own company.

    I also design magazines and brochures, but in 5 years there will be less and less of that because everyone is moving on
    to the internet and less and less people want paper. I mean the newspaper companies are in crisis!

    So I'm thinking between exhibit design & package design.
    I think package design MIGHT be a bit borning, so I'm leaning towards exhibit design.
    Learning AutoCad & VectorWorks in about 10 months and then looking for a job as a
    "Jr. Exhibit Designer"

    Then slowly getting to know the ins and outs of the company, then perhaps start getting my own customers or something.

    What do you guys think?
     
  2. steveinsg

    steveinsg Newbie

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    Dude, ... pick gynecology, much more fun, and think of all the Youtube vids you can upload for us! ;)
     
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  3. SpellZ

    SpellZ Regular Member

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    1 reply, 37 views.
     
  4. neo

    neo Power Member

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    LOL! :D

    SpellZ,
    You have a very important question. As you said there is no way you could design wordpress templates everyday for next 20 years. That's why you would need employees who can work for you. You establish a company and once you have a solid business reputation and can get things done by others.

    Chose a business which will last for long time. If you concentrate on wordpress design alone you could be in trouble because who knows if wordpress will survive for after 10 years or not.
    If you are worrying about profit margin you should know that as long as there is competition the profit margin will be until you establish a good name in the industry. However work like copywriting (and even webdesign to some extend) that requires creativity are more lucrative.
    In my opinion you can make money with less profits if your business is scalable.
    -Neo
     
  5. LaveymorT

    LaveymorT Registered Member

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    Occupation:
    Welding Inspector :(
    Location:
    Copenhagen
    This might seem a little misplaced :)
    But does it HAVE to be a internet related job?

    I know you guys has awesome skills when it comes to coding and stuff like that.
    But think about it, there are plenty of other non-internet related jobs out there.

    I work as Welding Inspector (I know it sounds lame) it banks me $100.000 a year tax free....I work worlwide, meet new people and cultures all the time.

    I am not saying you should go into welding QA/QC, it is just to put things into perspective :)
     
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  6. SpellZ

    SpellZ Regular Member

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    See I thought about websites, but websites aren't as scalable as I think they are.
    Because when the scale increases, that means the amount of people I need to hire increases.

    I mean.. just to get to 25 sites a month will be a nightmare! And then I'll have to keep active every day because if I stop promoting, then no more customers will show up

    Grr... *headache*
     
  7. SpellZ

    SpellZ Regular Member

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    See that is what I want to do! .. but a bit scared!

    Everything is moving to Internet! Everything! You can buy clothing from the internet now, check your mail from the internet, buy food from the internet, pay your bills from the internet, etc, etc. Everything is is ABOUT THE INTERNET.

    But if you sit and don't meet customers, you become very lonely.
    You loose sight of the world and don't go out as much. You sit behind the computer at home or at the office and that is it.

    With exhibit design you always travel to meet the customers, you always do new and creative design. And hopefully open up your own business some day which brings in CRAZY PROFITS.

    I mean with exhibit design, the average profit goes anywhere between %60 and %120, I've even seen profits as high as %200 (L'oreal came to Toronto, they paid $300,000, and the company ended up baking $200,000... A.K.A. into the pocket of the company owner)
     
  8. LaveymorT

    LaveymorT Registered Member

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    Occupation:
    Welding Inspector :(
    Location:
    Copenhagen
    First time I hear the term "exhibit design" but I can tell it is something where you travel to the client :)
    As I am twice your age I might has a bit more conservative approach to the internet and the endless possibilities it brings.

    Just keep in mind that there are other - very profitable - kinds of work out there.

    Good luck with whatever you choose :)
     
  9. SpellZ

    SpellZ Regular Member

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    LaveymorT, I'm interested in your opinions and thoughts (no sarcasm). Why do you have a more conservative approach to the internet and the endless possibilities it brings? I agree with you, you can do all the methods that are described on this site, you can do some other methods that are described on other sites.

    You can learn programs and sell your stuff online.

    But see.. it's all about you, you, you, you. When will the retirment kick and and it'll be all about, "Them, them, them, them" and money in your pocket for waking up at 11AM and travelling the world and getting paid? (them = some president you hire to take over)
     
  10. SpellZ

    SpellZ Regular Member

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    118 views so far, guys! I know you can help me out here, or at least tell me what you think...
     
  11. DrJekyll

    DrJekyll Senior Member Premium Member

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    think membership site.

    want to do wordpress? have a template membership site, or bring people that code and people that want together and get cash for them getting together, something like BHW for sale threads, get money to bring people together.

    exibit design, start a website that brings people that want exibits designed, and designers togetehr, make your money in the middle.

    ok, start both, or more.

    dont hold yourself back by actually doing the work [you can have your own company also doing designs, just dont limit yourself]
     
  12. SpellZ

    SpellZ Regular Member

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    JJMarketing, you are right, work is everywhere! But I'm debating between those couple of things that I wrote in my first post and opening up my own company in the future.

    Hmm... I'm in Canada, so I'll message some European companies that do exhibit design and see what they have to say I guess. Like how they got started, etc, etc.
     
  13. TapTapper

    TapTapper Junior Member

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    Occupation:
    coder, webstore mangler
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    I stay away from money-making opportunities that involve design work because every schoolkid learns that stuff now and it's really hard to compete. At 30 you'll be paying rent/mortgage and bills and managing a relationship etc competing against a 13 year old living at home. Who's just as good as you.

    What's your major? Internet work is a lot more than webpages you know. That's the absolute last step in the chain. There's data, security, infrastructure. Nothing runs without data: being a DBA is guaranteed to be a solid career if you can stand it. Also system security is a good call. Networking has pretty stiff competition too, every bohunk who can connect a stereo thinks he can be the next networking star. The tough jobs like coding and managing dbs are good careers.
     
  14. SpellZ

    SpellZ Regular Member

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    In theory this sounds like a very good idea (but so does communism). But I like it a lot! I will def. look into it more and see if that is possible. Its just when a person rents an exhibit (a stand, or whatever it might be) the minimum payment is $10,000 - $20,000 and if the person wants to buy it... Well... the minimum payment is alteast $70,000 and it goes up as high as $400,000 and $500,000 while you bank anywhere between 60% and 200%

    EDIT: so why I brought it up? If I meet the person and the designer together, how will it work? .. If they make a sale, I get a commission out of it?
     
  15. SpellZ

    SpellZ Regular Member

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    TapTapper, coding and programming and general is a rewarding career. I have a few uncles who are programmers for Casino security, etc. They make TONS of money, have how wives, HUUUGE houses and insane cars! They make crazy money! But here is the drawback... They can't rely on anyone to do there work. With so much knowdlege and expirience they can't trust anyone else to do the work for them.

    And I agree with the "Website part". Back when I was 15 I was that kid, and right now I'm one of the top students in my program, even though I am the youngest. But what I've noticed is all those kid know is how to use flash, a smaller portion but a BIG ONE knows how to make HTML sites, an even smaller portion knows FLASH, and even smaller portion knows how to make websites in Flash. Then it goes even lower and lower when those kids know how to operate with WordPress... BUT

    A % of kids that knows Cinema4D, VectorWorks, Maya & AutoCad? ... I doubt it.

    EDIT: And if they do know it, and CAN work from home.. well... I guess I can give them like 25% of the cut and they'll do the work for me lol.
     
  16. DrJekyll

    DrJekyll Senior Member Premium Member

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    I do not know anything about how exibit design business works, I was bringing you the suggestion of staying close to the actual work, but make your money without actually having to do the work.

    This will not work with all niches, but take the idea and do what works.
     
  17. turner

    turner Registered Member

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    My job is so fooking unbelievable. I'll try to sum it up by first telling you about the folks I work with:

    First, there is this supermodel wannabe chick. Yeah, okay, she is pretty hot, but damn is she completely useless.
    The girl is constantly fixing her hair or putting on make-up.
    She is extremely self-centred and has never once considered the needs or wants of anyone but herself.
    She is as dumb as a box of rocks, and I still find it surprising that she has enough brain power to continue to breathe.

    The next chick is completely the opposite. She might even be one of the smartest people on the planet.
    Her career opportunities are endless, and yet she is here with us. She is a zero on a scale of 1 to 10.
    I'm not sure she even showers, much less shaves her "womanly" parts.
    I think she might be a lesbian, because every time we drive by the hardware store she moans like a cat in heat.

    But the jewel of the crowd has got to be the fooking stoner. And this guy is more than just your average pothead.
    In fact, he is baked before he comes to work, during work, and I'm sure after work.
    He probably hasn't been sober any time in the last ten years, and he's only 22.
    He dresses like a beatnik throwback from the 1960's, and to make things worse, he brings his big fucking dog to work.
    Every fooking day I have to look at this huge Great Dane walk around half-stoned from the second-hand smoke.
    Hell, sometimes I even think it's trying to talk with its constant bellowing.
    Also, both of them are constantly hungry, requiring multiple stops to McDonald's and Burger King, every single fucking day.

    Anyway, I drive these fooktards around in my van and we solve mysteries and shit.
     
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  18. SpellZ

    SpellZ Regular Member

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    Hahahahahah! LOOOLL!!!!

    HAHAHAHHAHAHA!
     
  19. asoduk

    asoduk Registered Member

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    change your major to welding engineering. you will be able to retire young, but why retire when they keep paying you big bucks?
     
  20. SpellZ

    SpellZ Regular Member

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    Anyone else?