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Anyone else blasting out of the "penguin pit" with "trash" ?

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by Gyuman82, May 24, 2012.

  1. Gyuman82

    Gyuman82 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    I had a 3-4 sites out of the few hundred I own get "penguinized", and I already blasted 2 out with "trash links".

    AMR, BMD, Scrapebox, and Senuke. Only a few anchors (maybe 6-8 each site, targeting main keyword and variation).

    Oddly enough a 3rd site I been using the "dilution remedy" (ie blasting it with hundreds of anchor text) has not budged at all.

    Typical procedure twice a week:

    50 web 2.0s
    300 forum profiles
    100 social bookmarks
    2-300 scrapebox AA links
    300 AMR links

    Don't know if it is just coincidence or not, but seems to be working for me.

    Curious if anyone has experienced the same.



    penguinBS.png
     
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  2. zerocoolflo

    zerocoolflo Regular Member

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    what are you using for tracking the keywords ?
     
  3. cstmprod

    cstmprod Registered Member

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    I've been blasting my sites. Some with names generated by SB name generator, others with click here, click this, url etc. So far no improvement.
     
  4. lancis

    lancis Elite Member

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    Theoretically it should work as long as SERP are based on the amount of backlinks.
    Google's penalty is basically a reduced weight. For example before the penalty your SERP position was multiplied by 1, after the penalty by 0.5. Build twice more backlinks and you have effectively removed the weight, because 0.5 * 2 = 1.
     
  5. spruitje

    spruitje Junior Member

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    I seriously doubt it... If this were the case then peguin would be a spammers wet dream:

    build crappy links -> get to#1 -> receive penalty -> build twice as many crappy links -> back at #1???

    If what you said would be true, then it would probaly take around a week before mns with millions of sb links started to pop up on #1 for competitive kw's.
     
  6. lancis

    lancis Elite Member

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    Well, I;m not a Google engineer to comment on that. But I know how Page rank algorithm works, and I have 8 years experience in creating complex algorithms. They all use weights, this way or another. Its the most natural way to introduce a penalty.

    About the spammers... if I set your weight to 0.0001, spamming would still help - the only problem: you dont have the resources to spam that much. :)
     
  7. spruitje

    spruitje Junior Member

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    1) I was not questioning the fact that weights are used in algorithms. I just meant that if I made a complex algorithm that gives a penalty for crappy links, I'd make damn sure that adding more of these could not cancel out the penalty. Otherwise you'd just be encouraging more undesirable behaviour. Makes sense, doesn't it?

    2)I think you may be underestimating my mystical spamming powers:wof:
     
  8. Mortz

    Mortz Registered Member

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    I agree with Lancis. We removed as many of our old comment spam backlinks as possible and blasted a few interior pages out of 1800+ URLs. The only ones resurfacing are the ones we're nailing with more paid backlinks. Granted they're better back links but all in all, it just seems like the more we dump to those select URLs, the higher they return. These few URLs have been stuck in the positive for 3-4 weeks, it's not temporary. Our other URLs are still gone.
     
  9. veheme

    veheme Elite Member

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    I'd probably take out the forum links and the comment blasts. Are the web 2.0 contextual links? Also, I would probably add wiki links in there.

    By doing all these, yes, I am getting positive results with that.
     
  10. lancis

    lancis Elite Member

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    To answer 1, there are means on Google side to make the effect permanent - deindexing. If your site is deindexed nothing will help, as the site simple doesn't participate in the SERP mash-up.

    I'm confident in your mystical powers! Its the interent that is not big enough for you. :p
     
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  11. dp40oz

    dp40oz Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Yes but if the algorithm is setup to penalize massive amounts of garbage links then you would just be further penalizing yourself. I doubt it would be setup to only penalize on the 1st offense then allow spammers to go nuts.
     
  12. BLIXX

    BLIXX Regular Member

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    Nice, thought provoking thread. :) ...if only there were more...:(

    Whether or not 'Garbage' links will improve one's position is niche dependent: I.e. to what extent do 'garbage' links pervade your niche? Simply put, the more one's niche is affected by such links, the more 'play' one has within that niche to manipulate SERPs post-Penguin with garbage.

    Lancis is quite right: Algorithms can only function within their own programmatic/weighting parameters; that being said, this overly simplistic explication does not account for specific intra-niche filters, or, how the overall algorithm issues SERPs results based upon overriding factors. These factors being governed by predictable - crackable - variables.


    WAAAAAYYYYYYY too many people are still missing the forest for the trees: STOP looking to incidences and websites outside of your own niche to find answers to why your website took a shit. Look towards who in your niche moved up. Do this, and you have a basic template as to how to recover your site, if it is - in fact - recoverable.
     
  13. Gyuman82

    Gyuman82 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    I do think also that recovery may be niche specific, though I don't have any evidence really to prove this only from what I have observed.

    The reason I made this thread was to really think about the whole theory of "anchor text variation" as it seems like there are non-stop theories regarding this "diluted" anchor formula for recovering from penguin.

    Though anchor text variation is important, many of the "experts" are recommending less that 10-15% for your keyword, and they point to sites on page 1 as evidence of this. However I had issues with this low percentage because intuitively it did not make sense to me for the following reasons.

    1. If your main keyword is less than 10-15%, how is Google to figure out that this is what your site is about?

    2. Sites on page 1 may have less than 10-15% of their links targeting their main keyword, but maybe these 10-15% are much STRONGER links than the rest? It would be one thing if all the links were all the same PR and carried the same weight, but usually this is not the case for authority type sites.

    3. I do not see how Google could possibly penalize a site for going over such a small percentage for anchor text distribution. Maybe if say the keyword was over 70% or some high amount, however I would think there are many sites (ie brand names) that receive their keyword much more than 10-15% naturally.


    So I went to the lab and split tested with anchor text variation and without, and this is what I found so far. (granted it is a small sample size)
     
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  14. SuperLinks

    SuperLinks Elite Member

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    I'm one of those proponents of diluting backlink profiles, and have seen it work on a few of my sites and other friends/clients websites as well.

    Google doesn't need to have a lot of incoming backlinks with proper anchor text to determine what your page is about, and therefore should rank for. If you look at a natural backlink profile, not one that is artificially created, you'll typically notice that the actual percentage of optimized anchor text links is really really low.

    The idea of dilution is important as it creates a natural backlink profile today, and well into the future. By looking at your ranking graphs I'm not sure that the backlinks you created were the cause of your recovery. Most sites hit by Penguin have a much longer "drop" then what you had. My guess is that as Penguin was rolled out across the index, most sites got hit harder than yours and thus dropped below your website and moved your sites up in rankings.

    Google can penalize a website that has a ton of overly optimized anchor text links. All it takes is analyzing the backlink data, with the onsite variables, and more often than not it becomes apparent that a site is trying to game Google. Often times the sites that are doing lazy linkbuilding (one keyword and one URL) are the same type that have a keyword density of 10+% and use the keyword in every H tag, and title tag.
     
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  15. ija61

    ija61 Senior Member

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    To be short:

    I manage to do that, get out of penguin by using "trash" before and after.

    Not that I see it coming but I start the anchor diversity way before penguin and when it have came I saw a big jump, and after a it slow down but the trend is ascending.... and here I'm talking about a 1mil local search

    Thank you.
     
  16. assphuck

    assphuck Senior Member

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    Bingo!

    You know those unnatural link detection messages in Webmaster Tools? The way to get rid of those messages is to normalize your backlink profile. Penguin is about offpage over-optimization and the way to fix that is with natural looking backlinks from multiples platforms. One day is all it took for me to remove that nagging message in Webmaster Tools from each site that had it. I'm slowly adding my disposable sites back into my WMT account because of this.

    I'm with you 100% on this SuperLinks. I took a Penguinized site from ranking #590 to #9. Was it a fluke? I don't know since Penguin is not running all the time. But I applied the same principals used on that site to others and yet did some things different on others. When Penguin is run next time, I should be in a great position to say what does and does not work. But diluting ones backlink profile, as you say, quickly removed that unnatural links detected message from multiple sites. To me, that is enough confirmation that I am on the right track.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2012
  17. veheme

    veheme Elite Member

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    I agree. In my case and in my experiences, it seems to not be an option but a must. If you want to rank high, you must stabilize your link profile and link diversity first.
     
  18. BLIXX

    BLIXX Regular Member

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    Well, then you have all the evidence that anyone else has! :)

    Yes.

    Re #1: This is where on-site factors are crucial: The relationship between off-site ranking factors and on-site optimization as concerns those factors is crucial - now more than ever. Yes, Google is attempting to bring into the fray sites, and therefore webmasters, that know fuck-all about on-site SEO (i.e sites that fail miserably at meeting what most of us will - and do - consider 'proper' on-site optimization). However, pay close attention to the sites that rank with miserable on-site SEO... what do you see? For the most, you see simple HTML sites, that's what you see. I'll fast-forward to the conclusion so as to not belabour this post: Google is experimenting with things that are well beyond its current means as regards "evening the playing-field". Google is always experimenting with such things so as to advance and refine its engine... You would, too - yeah?

    Re #2: Complicated, yes?! ;) - and there you have it: So long as one is able to account for these (and other) complexities, there is - and will be - no problems as regards future SEO or how to 'get out of' Penguin penalties.

    Since most people want a linear "what EXACTLY do I do now?!?!?!?!?!!!11111" outline, I imagine this response is exceedingly unsatisfying, so I'll be a tad more specific: YES - some links are stronger than others!

    My advice: Look at a site's entire link portfolio - I promise: why your site took a gargantuan shit and the sites that have beaten you did not lies therein. :)

    Re #3: This is because you are failing to fully analyze your own niche, my dude. Being fair, one will have to have a fairly significant amount of SERPs data as concerns what rankings were prior to Penguin to fully appreciate what is going on. The flip-side to that coin is that this information is entirely unnecessary to properly evaluate what Google is actually doing, here.

    'EpertPeon', as one example, seems obsessed with notifying his public with the fact that spam links are "working" for his, particular, set of IM concerns. The objective will - and can only - note that the specific niches he mentions are those that have been spammed to death prior to "SPAM" even having a name. Pharma, as but one example, is what it is due to nothing other than SPAM links. One has, therefore, a definite amount of SPAM-i-tude with which to manipulate that niche to one's own ends. This is absolutely NOT true of what works in ALL niches.



    If there is are singular things I can recommend absent looking at specific instances, they are these:

    1.) To what extent is your niche SPAM-dependent?

    What do I mean...?

    I mean this: To what extent is your niche's over-all SERPs dependent upon garbage links...? Put simply, and as an example: if 99% of your website's niche has been manipulated by xRummer and Scrape Box-type links, one has a nearly infinite amount of latitude to adjust one's site's position in organic search, given that Google can ONLY base its own SERPs on the data provided to it over time....

    2.) If one's niche has - over time - garnered a 'white hat' reputation with Google (i.e. has not become susceptible to all that many SPAM links), the more so-called 'white hat' an approach one will want to take.


    3.) To what extent is your niche even open to organic link acquisition...? And this is the big one that almost everyone misses: Are you trying to promote a website that sells green trash bags...? lol How many fucking organic links do you HONESTLY think this site will garner on its own?

    I'll help you: The answer is ZERO - none, zilch, nada.

    It is YOUR responsibility (you SEO professional, you) to know - at the VERY least, to foreshadow - such things for yourself or your own clients (assuming that any of you clowns want long-term clientele).

    In the end, thing s are FAR more complicated as regards SEO than most will let on or acknowledge.

    I hope I have helped someone, here.
     
  19. gguru

    gguru Regular Member

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    Hey what you give if i bring your site in First page of google. How Much ?

    I Bring you Guaranteed First page for sure..I believe i am the only one who beat Penguin in the world.hehehehehe
     
  20. BLIXX

    BLIXX Regular Member

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    ^Utterly shameless - absent of character, integrity or principle. Preying on the weak and ignorant.

    What's it like to be such a scumbag loser, scarp peddler, and utterly empty - soulless human being?

    Do you masturbate to Tony Robins videos with peanut butter on your nipples and a banana in your mouth?

    Yeah - you do.