1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Any classic movie or music buffs in here that have a good memory?

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by GreyWolf, Mar 29, 2010.

  1. GreyWolf

    GreyWolf Executive VIP Jr. VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    1,930
    Likes Received:
    5,449
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Artist / Craftsman
    Location:
    sitting at my PC
    This question really doesn't fit the criteria of any regular forums so I'm posting it here in the lounge.

    I'm hoping that maybe I can pick peoples memories. Most likely it will only be other old farts like me that remember any examples, but maybe some of you younger people have seen enough old movies that you might be able to help as well.

    Before anyone flames me, this has nothing to do, for or against homosexuality.

    I need to find movies, songs, and books in which gay was used in its original meaning prior to its use for homosexuality. I've searched g00gle, but because of its current use, its almost impossible to find information referencing its original meaning, unless you actually know what your looking for.

    If there is any movie or song buffs that can help then put on your thinking hats. :) I'm primarily looking for sources between 1920 and 1980, but anything can be helpful. I'm only looking for examples in which gay was not used in reference to sexual preference. Here are some examples I was able to find or remembered myself, but I know there are a lot more.

    TV:
    Mary Tyler Moore Show
    - first episode contained a line in the script "Mary is still young and gay"
    The Flinstones Theme Song

    Movies:
    West Side Story had the song I Feel Pretty
    The Gay Falcon
    The Gay Divorcee
    The Girl from Gay Paree

    Songs:
    Gilbert O'Sullivan - Alone Again (Naturally)
    Herman' Hermits - No Milk Today
    Frank Sinatra - I'll Be Seeing You
    Christmas Song - Deck the Halls
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010
  2. aishahriar

    aishahriar BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    310
    Likes Received:
    337
    I think in Gone with the Wind? Not sure, but I think either the book or the movie referred to gay times in the south...

    A Google search for that came up with this:
    http://www.filmsite.org/dark.html
    [​IMG]Last Dying Words


    Dying Judith Traherne's (Bette Davis) comforting of her best friend Ann King (Geraldine Fitzgerald): ("Don't, Ann. I'm happy, really I am. Now let me see, is there anything else? Oh yes, one more thing. When Michael runs Challenger in the National, oh, and he'll win - I'm sure he'll win - have a party and invite all our friends. Now let me see, silly old Alec, if he's back from Europe, Colonel Mantle and old Carrie and, oh yes, and don't forget dear old Dr. Parsons. Give them champagne and be gay. Be very very gay. I must go in now. Ann, please understand, no one must be here, no one - I must show him I can do it alone. Perhaps it will help him over some bad moments to remember it. Ann, be my best friend. Go now. Please"); she then tells her maid Martha to leave her to die in peace alone - with dignity: ("Is that you, Martha? I don't want to be disturbed")




    Hope that helps....
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  3. GreyWolf

    GreyWolf Executive VIP Jr. VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    1,930
    Likes Received:
    5,449
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Artist / Craftsman
    Location:
    sitting at my PC
    Yes that is exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for.
    I will search Gone with the Wind to see if I can find it.
    ok found it - 25 matches in the book. It isn't in the movie because it was descriptions of characters and places, but not in the lines they speak. cool find, thanks.

    And great find on the Dark Victory.
    I just looked at it and found these lyrics sung by a man and woman in the movie:
    I will never ask for more than you can give,
    Yet when you say, 'Be gay today and live,'
    My heart answers cautiously, 'Today will soon be gone,'
    Why rush to meet our destiny?
    Why must we hurry on?


    I'm thinking gay was probably in some of the musicals and comedies back in the 30s to 50s too, like the Topper Movies, or the Danny Kaye, Gene Kelly, Fred Astaire type movies. But its just hard to find references.

    I've tried everything I can think of, script gay, song gay, lyrics gay, movie gay, etc. both simple search terms like those, and expanded terms like "scripts that contain gay" and tons of variations on all of those. With the exception of a few gems, they all come up with 1000s or references for movies or songs about homosexuality.

    What was the search criteria that you used.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010
  4. aishahriar

    aishahriar BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    310
    Likes Received:
    337
    Hey Greywolf

    I gotta be curious about what you need this stuff for?

    Sorry I can't help much w the search criteria
    I just did:
    Gone with the wind gay

    I suppose you could try
    Fred Astaire gay
    Bette Davis gay

    etc

    Or try with movie names like
    Casablanca gay

    Hope that helps?
     
  5. The Scarlet Pimp

    The Scarlet Pimp Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2008
    Messages:
    850
    Likes Received:
    3,243
    Occupation:
    Chair moistener.
    Location:
    Cyberspace
    1. "I've gone gay all of a sudden!" yelled Cary Grant, dressed in a frilly robe, as he met a nosy visitor in the comedy 'Bringing Up Baby'.
    (this was probably an inside joke, as he was bi in real life)

    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,957338,00.html


    2. in one ep from the old (campy) 'batman' show the joker is riding around in a van that has 'gayfellow cleaners' printed on the side. when you get closer it says, 'let gayfellow take you to the cleaners'. perhaps another inside joke, as romero was also 'musical' (as they say) in real life.


    3. search the imdb, http://www.imdb.com/find?s=tt&q=gay

    4. songs with 'gay' in title, http://www.ibeatyou.com/competition/dd897f/best-song-w-the-word-gay-in-the-title
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  6. GreyWolf

    GreyWolf Executive VIP Jr. VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    1,930
    Likes Received:
    5,449
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Artist / Craftsman
    Location:
    sitting at my PC
    #1 may have been a sexual innuendo, but given the time it was made it isn't as certain that it was a cloaked reference as people seem to think today, the joke fit even without a double meaning. I might include it, but its not one of the best examples because of the possible double meaning.

    #2 good find on the batman episode. given the time it was made and the campy nature of the show, it could have had a double meaning. Not one of the best examples for my project, but a good find nonetheless

    #3 I've looked on the imdb before, but I found a few more good ones with the link you provided, but like I said it involves a lot of sorting through references to sexuality. Found a few more good gems in the list though, so thanks.

    #4 Great song, another great example of what I'm looking for. Thanks.

    Well, so far posting this thread got me some good info. Hopefully somemore people know of more good examples of gay being used in movies, songs, and books in its original context of carefree, joyfull, bright and showy.
     
  7. GreyWolf

    GreyWolf Executive VIP Jr. VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    1,930
    Likes Received:
    5,449
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Artist / Craftsman
    Location:
    sitting at my PC
    lol, well I'm not ready to reveal my project yet. The project is totally related to the material I'm seatching for. But like I said it has nothing to do with a stand for or against peoples sexual preference. I have a use for it that I think will help for getting traffic.
     
  8. loclhero

    loclhero Supreme Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    Messages:
    1,453
    Likes Received:
    2,413
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Copperhead Road
    There was a play and then movie, probably in the 30's called The Gay Divorcee
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  9. realitycheck

    realitycheck Newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2010
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    3
    Occupation:
    Putting things in order. The world is so cluttered
    Location:
    USA
    There was a movie in mid-40s called "Our Hearts Were Young and Gay" starring Gail Russell (the shapely but innocent young wench that turned bad-guy John Wayne into good-guy in the western "The Angel and the Badman").
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  10. aishahriar

    aishahriar BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    310
    Likes Received:
    337
    http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/s/sabrina-script-transcript-audrey-hepburn.html

    Sabrina starring Audrey Hepburn "The souffle, it must be gay"
    Sounds a bit like an innuendo though

    Anyway, hope you project goes well :)
     
  11. blondiesbabe

    blondiesbabe Newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    15
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  12. GreyWolf

    GreyWolf Executive VIP Jr. VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    1,930
    Likes Received:
    5,449
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Artist / Craftsman
    Location:
    sitting at my PC
    Thats a real good one. That is exactly the type of context gay used to be used in.

    It's doubtful that it was written in the script as an innuendo. Most references in movies prior to the 1960s, gay as an innuendo would have gone over 95% of the audience heads, and the ones that did get it would have more likely taken it as a reference to heterosexual promiscuity.

    When people watch those old movies today they tend to carry their current use of language with them, and reading it into things that most likely hadn't been intended.

    I've been trying to find references to Audrey Hepburn cause she usually played very cheerful and gay characters. Liza in My Fair LAdy was very gay, but I haven't found a script so I don't know if it is used in any lines.

    Thanks alot aishahriar, another good find for me.
     
  13. realitycheck

    realitycheck Newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2010
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    3
    Occupation:
    Putting things in order. The world is so cluttered
    Location:
    USA
    Hey, we wanna see the result of this project when you're done... so send us a link to the outcome. Sounds interesting.
     
  14. Aquaholic

    Aquaholic Newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Compliance manager in debt resolution
    Location:
    UK South Coast
    Just a few things I managed to find;
    1) Definitions of caper:
    noun: gay or light-hearted recreational activity for diversion or amusement

    2) Definitions of frolic:
    noun: gay or light-hearted recreational activity for diversion or amusement

    There are loads more here;
    http://www.rhymezone.com/r/rhyme.cgi?Word=gay&typeofrhyme=rel&org1=syl&org2=l

    Here's some more stuff
    "It is only when we are very happy that we can bear to gaze merrily upon the vast and limitless expanse of water, rolling on and on with such persistent, irritating monotony, to the accompaniment of our thoughts, whether grave or gay. When they are gay, the waves echo their gaiety; but when they are sad, then every breaker, as it rolls, seems to bring additional sadness, and to speak to us of hopelessness and of the pettiness of all our joys."
    Orczy, Baroness on Sea


    "To live lightheartedly but not recklessly; to be gay without being boisterous; to be courageous without being bold; to show trust and cheerful resignation without fatalism -- this is the art of living."
    La Fontaine, Jean De on Life and Living

    "Anyone who has been to an English public school will always feel comparatively at home in prison. It is the people brought up in the gay intimacy of the slums who find prison so soul-destroying."
    Waugh, Evelyn on Prison

    "Though you be absent here, I needs must say
    The trees as beauteous are, and flowers as gay,
    As ever they were wont to be."
    Abraham Cowley (1618 - 1667) English "poet, essayist"
    The Spring



    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/+gay
    In addition to its original and continuing senses of "merry, lively" and "bright or showy," gay has had various senses dealing with sexual conduct since the 17th century. A gay woman was a prostitute, a gay man a womanizer, a gay house a brothel. This sexual world included homosexuals too, and gay as an adjective meaning "homosexual" goes back at least to the early 1900s. After World War II, as social attitudes toward sexuality began to change, gay was applied openly by homosexuals to themselves, first as an adjective and later as a noun. Today, the noun often designates only a male homosexual: gays and lesbians. The word has ceased to be slang and is not used disparagingly. Homosexual as a noun is sometimes used only in reference to a male.
     
  15. GreyWolf

    GreyWolf Executive VIP Jr. VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    1,930
    Likes Received:
    5,449
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Artist / Craftsman
    Location:
    sitting at my PC
    @Auquaholic - thanks that rhymezone link gave me some good sources too.

    And yes I know the etymology that you linked too. But that doesn't tell the whole story. Gay was just one of the terms sometimes used to mean homosexuality. It was much more commonly used for its carefree joyful meaning until the 1970s.

    Anyone born after about 1960 doesn't really understand how common a word it really was. The complete shift in meaning was much more abrupt that those web definitions like to point out. As an example, in 1965 it was still a very common name chosen for babies, it's use as a baby name dropped rapidly after around 1970, and by 1978 was no longer used at all. Prior to 1970 gay wasn't even the most commonly used term for homosexuality.

    But like I said my project isn't about homosexuality, it's about etymology, and what I need help with right now is just tracking down movies, songs and books. Especially movies, and songs between the 1940s till 1970s.

    So please let just keep finding examples of movies, and songs. Thanks.
     
  16. GreyWolf

    GreyWolf Executive VIP Jr. VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    1,930
    Likes Received:
    5,449
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Artist / Craftsman
    Location:
    sitting at my PC
    Ok realitycheck, I'll be sure to let you know when it's complete.