AMA about PBNs (setup, footprints, things to avoid, et al.)

Visionraze

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I have some questions regarding creating pbns ! I am thinking to create 100 pbns !

What would be The budget creating 100 pbns backlinks ?

How to find Expired DA 50 + Domains ?

Where to find cheap hosting ?

Where to get simple unique cms themes with logo and unique themes on all pbns ?

How to maintain OBL Ratio !

Some more Guidance would be really Appreciated !
 

Cpt_Ghost

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Wow! Such good valuable information, and for free!
Life is good over at BHW Forums.

The question, I've been hoarding domains with high (DR) on Ahrefs, didn't take into account SS, History and so on.
Anyways.

I have hosted 10 sites now on Infinity Free (Still not linking to money sites)
These 10 sites are on the same IP - address.

Is there a way for me to get a unique IP address for the sites I already set up? like cloudflare or something?

Or do I need to build them on new unique hosting servers.
 

janist

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I have some questions regarding creating pbns ! I am thinking to create 100 pbns !

What would be The budget creating 100 pbns backlinks ?

How to find Expired DA 50 + Domains ?

Where to find cheap hosting ?

Where to get simple unique cms themes with logo and unique themes on all pbns ?

How to maintain OBL Ratio !

Some more Guidance would be really Appreciated !

These have all been answered in the thread! I suggest reading it thoroughly. :)

Here are some quickfire answers:

1. For 100 PBNs

  • 100x mid quality expired domains (RD20+, decent 3rd party metrics (if you want those), top TLDs (com/net/org) incl. domain registration = $5000 minimum. But for really good domains you pay easily pay $100+ / domain. So this is a bare minimum. You basically leverage domain volume over domain quality. Would possibly argue that you need more around $30000-50000 for 100 good domains + registration fee.
  • 100x good cloud droplets incl. backups (via Vultr, Digitalocean, Linode, AWS, etc.) = $600 / month absolute minimum. Don't cheap out on PBN hosting. Having a decent hosting infrastructure is imo the most important aspect of any good PBN.
  • 100x PBN set-ups with no footprints, theme customization, necessary plugins, htaccess customization, redirections, blocked IP lists etc. = $3000-4000 minimum, usually more around 5000$ - unless you want to set them up all by yourself.
  • 100x niche relevant articles (at least 1500-2000 words split over at least 1-3 articles) = $2500 minimum
  • A few premium themes + Elementor PRO ~ $500
So minimum of $15000 for 100 low-power PBNs, $30000-50000+ if you really want to use some decent domains.

2. For DA50+ domains, use auctions or domain vendors

3. Vultr, DigitalOcean, Linode - all offer droplets for $5 / month.

4. Wordpress theme depository? Or use Elementor Pro (+Astra or Hello Theme), Divi, Generatepress+Generateblocks. With those three combos you can generate hundreds of unique sites.

5. Keep OBL = 1 preferrably. Otherwise, just keep it low and make sure to avoid footprints when linking to your money sites.



Wow! Such good valuable information, and for free!
Life is good over at BHW Forums.

The question, I've been hoarding domains with high (DR) on Ahrefs, didn't take into account SS, History and so on.
Anyways.

I have hosted 10 sites now on Infinity Free (Still not linking to money sites)
These 10 sites are on the same IP - address.

Is there a way for me to get a unique IP address for the sites I already set up? like cloudflare or something?

Or do I need to build them on new unique hosting servers.

Unique servers with dedicated IPs. Available at hosts like Vultr, DigitalOcean, Linode or Atlantic.
 
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How do I set Whois to private before buying hosting? I was setting up a register on namesilo and they wanted my email for Whois. Is it a additional fee when purchasing domains on go daddy?
 

janist

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How do I set Whois to private before buying hosting? I was setting up a register on namesilo and they wanted my email for Whois. Is it a additional fee when purchasing domains on go daddy?

You will be able to opt in to the free WhoIs during checkout for your domain on Namesilo.

They need an email for abuse reports, but in the WhoIs register, you won't see it.

Here's how it looks like when someone runs a whois for a namesilo domain (random PBN from our Namesilo account):

namesilowhois.png

GoDaddy also has free Whois, but wants to sell you on their "Premium Protection" which you dont really need.

We mostly stick to these 4 registrars: Name, Namesilo, Dynadot and Namecheap
 

Ameni

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Thank you for taking the time to answer all the questions.
Ready top answer more of your PBN related questions. Fire away... :)
1. Wouldn't be using the same MX servers for all your network be considered a footprint? E.g. using Zoho's emailing services.
2. What about using email forwarding services?
 

janist

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Thank you for taking the time to answer all the questions.

1. Wouldn't be using the same MX servers for all your network be considered a footprint? E.g. using Zoho's emailing services.
2. What about using email forwarding services?

1. Not really, as its used by thousands of other sites.

2. Do-able - but not sure if its worth it for a PBN.

Overall, the email part of the PBN is very very optional. You don't need it, it's just an optional step that can make a PBN appear more legit.
 

Ameni

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1. Not really, as its used by thousands of other sites.

2. Do-able - but not sure if its worth it for a PBN.

Overall, the email part of the PBN is very very optional. You don't need it, it's just an optional step that can make a PBN appear more legit.
Thank you for your quick reply. Just to see if I got this right:

Are you saying that MX records are only there to make it look more legit? And there’s no need to actual actual have a working email address?

imo it’s mandatory because there’s few very few established websites that don’t have a working email address. Business wise, you’d need a method of contact and email is the most common used, right?
 

janist

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Yes, thats why Zoho is a good choice for a free [email protected] mail.

Having said that, the PBN site is just for link building. The probability of someone contacting you via the site is nil, as traffic will most likely be very very low (close to zero).

Alternatively, you can also use a new gmail or whatever other free service you like for each new PBN and forward those to your main mail acc.
 
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If I buy a clean parked domain that has not been indexed in 2 plus years will it still retain its backlink juice. If domains loose link juice if not indexed for years at what rate do parked domains begin to loose their backlink juice.
Thank you
 

janist

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If I buy a clean parked domain that has not been indexed in 2 plus years will it still retain its backlink juice. If domains loose link juice if not indexed for years at what rate do parked domains begin to loose their backlink juice.
Thank you

If the links are still live you're good to go. The domain will re-index eventually and continue to pass the link juice. Just make sure to re-build any inner pages that have links to them.
 

Htoga

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@janist Is there a reason why you're using WordPress and not static or static site generators?

What's your take on using s3 buckets and similar for PBNs (static sites)?

Would shared hosting which offers a separate ip list for your sites be ok for PBNs. There are several sites on those IPs.

Why are you against using Cloudflare? I saw this article on PBN footprints would this be part of the reason? https://www.easyblognetworks.com/blog/research-two-thirds-pbns-cloudflare-leak-real-ips

Are you doing other SEO actions such as Google stacks? If yes, what do you use?

Does runcloud handle the updates? Are you using infrastructure as code for your deployments?
 
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Htoga

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P. S: apart from s3 buckets there's also Netlify, cloudflare pages, github pages, web.app(Google cloud)
All these can be used through using static site generators or static sites. Why go through using a lamp stack with all the security issues that can arise especially for such a huge amount of PBNs?

As for cloudflare, one of the bigger advantages is the injection of their apps and analytics which are hidden from the end user. You're not the only one who was saying no to it @tiiberius but the reason was not detailed. Can one of you detail a bit more in light of the above statements?
 

janist

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@janist Is there a reason why you're using WordPress and not static or static site generators?

What's your take on using s3 buckets and similar for PBNs (static sites)?

Would shared hosting which offers a separate ip list for your sites be ok for PBNs. There are several sites on those IPs.

Why are you against using Cloudflare? I saw this article on PBN footprints would this be part of the reason? https://www.easyblognetworks.com/blog/research-two-thirds-pbns-cloudflare-leak-real-ips

Are you doing other SEO actions such as Google stacks? If yes, what do you use?

Does runcloud handle the updates? Are you using infrastructure as code for your deployments?

P. S: apart from s3 buckets there's also Netlify, cloudflare pages, github pages, web.app(Google cloud)
All these can be used through using static site generators or static sites. Why go through using a lamp stack with all the security issues that can arise especially for such a huge amount of PBNs?

As for cloudflare, one of the bigger advantages is the injection of their apps and analytics which are hidden from the end user. You're not the only one who was saying no to it @tiiberius but the reason was not detailed. Can one of you detail a bit more in light of the above statements?

1. Simply, because we know how to work with WP. HTML or static sites would be easier (and faster), yes - but our team is used to WP and customization is a lot easier.

2. Never tried any of those (S3, Netlify, Github Pages, etc.). If those offer dedicated IPs that don't host any other sites, then go for it. I'm not too familiar with those as we stick to Wordpress 100% fo the time. We have a few on Lightsail, but that's about it.

3. Yes, re. cloudflare. Leaks and ways to find the real IP. Also really don't need their analytics for a PBN :)

4. Never used Google stacks for our PBNs. We use custom filtered sape and some low tier link inserts/gps for our PBNs (if needed).

5. What updates do you mean specifically? Wordpress updates? No.
 

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1. Simply, because we know how to work with WP. HTML or static sites would be easier (and faster), yes - but our team is used to WP and customization is a lot easier.

2. Never tried any of those (S3, Netlify, Github Pages, etc.). If those offer dedicated IPs that don't host any other sites, then go for it. I'm not too familiar with those as we stick to Wordpress 100% fo the time. We have a few on Lightsail, but that's about it.

3. Yes, re. cloudflare. Leaks and ways to find the real IP. Also really don't need their analytics for a PBN :)

4. Never used Google stacks for our PBNs. We use custom filtered sape and some low tier link inserts/gps for our PBNs (if needed).

5. What updates do you mean specifically? Wordpress updates? No.
@janist Thanks for the reply.

For 2.: Let's take AWS S3 buckets as an Example. You don't need an IP address since you create initially an S3 bucket which would be something like: yoursecretpbnbucket.s3-website-us-west-2.amazonaws.com

Now, why I keep on mentioning Cloudflare is because with a domain name you must have an A record but if you want to deploy on AWS, heroku, netlify, etc. you only need to point the domain to the location of your app (in our case aws s3 bucket) and so Cloudflare created something which is called a virtual CNAME and so you don't need an A record anymore since they handle that for you. Here's a more in-depth article on CNAMES https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/why-cant-a-domain-s-root-be-a-cname-8cbab38e5f5c/

For 3: There's no need to hide anyway your IP since it's the DNS provider and the bucket provider IPs (hiding in plain sight)

For 4: What's a sape and link inserts / gps?

For 5: I mean how do you deploy and keep them updated since you would also need to follow some security practices such as updating the linux server libraries, wordpress, etc.

And one extra question: How do you monitor your backlinks when you order them or your backlinks in general? Is there a tool specifically for this ? I think some mention Scrapebox backlinks checker addon but is that the go-to ?
 

janist

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@janist Thanks for the reply.

For 2.: Let's take AWS S3 buckets as an Example. You don't need an IP address since you create initially an S3 bucket which would be something like: yoursecretpbnbucket.s3-website-us-west-2.amazonaws.com

Now, why I keep on mentioning Cloudflare is because with a domain name you must have an A record but if you want to deploy on AWS, heroku, netlify, etc. you only need to point the domain to the location of your app (in our case aws s3 bucket) and so Cloudflare created something which is called a virtual CNAME and so you don't need an A record anymore since they handle that for you. Here's a more in-depth article on CNAMES https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/why-cant-a-domain-s-root-be-a-cname-8cbab38e5f5c/

For 3: There's no need to hide anyway your IP since it's the DNS provider and the bucket provider IPs (hiding in plain sight)

For 4: What's a sape and link inserts / gps?

For 5: I mean how do you deploy and keep them updated since you would also need to follow some security practices such as updating the linux server libraries, wordpress, etc.

And one extra question: How do you monitor your backlinks when you order them or your backlinks in general? Is there a tool specifically for this ? I think some mention Scrapebox backlinks checker addon but is that the go-to ?

Re. S3:

I think the whole S3 setup is a bit above my technical knowledge. So, I can't possible give you an answer if this works for a proper PBN setup. From what I read here it COULD work (no promises): https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonS3/latest/userguide/website-hosting-custom-domain-walkthrough.html

But since we use Wordpress (always) - it's not really interesting to us.

Re Links:

Those are link types.

Link inserts are basically links placed into existing articles on real websites (acquired via manual outreach).

GP (guest posts) are basically new articles posted on real websites (acquired via manual outreach).

Sape is a link rental platform.

Re. Updates:

Runcloud handles the auto updates (security / ubuntu)

See here:

Server-Settings-RunCloud.png

For Wordpress:

Mostly handled by an internal team. Daily backups help if something breaks.



Re. Backlink Monitoring:

In general, Google Search Console. Gives you the most concise view of your link profile. But I wouldn't really use it for PBNs.

So instead I'd recommend Ahrefs - which is our go-to tool for many things.
 

Ameni

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@janist Thanks for the reply.

For 2.: Let's take AWS S3 buckets as an Example. You don't need an IP address since you create initially an S3 bucket which would be something like: yoursecretpbnbucket.s3-website-us-west-2.amazonaws.com

Now, why I keep on mentioning Cloudflare is because with a domain name you must have an A record but if you want to deploy on AWS, heroku, netlify, etc. you only need to point the domain to the location of your app (in our case aws s3 bucket) and so Cloudflare created something which is called a virtual CNAME and so you don't need an A record anymore since they handle that for you. Here's a more in-depth article on CNAMES https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/why-cant-a-domain-s-root-be-a-cname-8cbab38e5f5c/

For 3: There's no need to hide anyway your IP since it's the DNS provider and the bucket provider IPs (hiding in plain sight)

For 4: What's a sape and link inserts / gps?

For 5: I mean how do you deploy and keep them updated since you would also need to follow some security practices such as updating the linux server libraries, wordpress, etc.

And one extra question: How do you monitor your backlinks when you order them or your backlinks in general? Is there a tool specifically for this ? I think some mention Scrapebox backlinks checker addon but is that the go-to ?
2. All buckets are pointed to an IP address (that's how the internet works). By default that IP is shared with other buckets but you can also rent a dedicated IP for your bucket.

3. Yes, that is true with a big BUT: Imagine your money site having all good backlinks coming from one type of setup: all using Cloudflare. I think this might leave a footprint.

I might also add that you'd need one Cloudflare account for each website just to have different Cloudflare nameservers as that might leave another footprint.

Also, 40% of the internet (or close to it) is using WordPress. By using WordPress yourself, you are hiding your PBNs in the crowd, which is the best thing you can do. Static generators are used only by a few million websites worldwide and might create a footprint for your money site - even if you'd spend less more money hosting and managing your PBNs.

5. If you're using droplets from other providers than Roundcloud, then you'd have to manage (update) them yourself (including the Linux libraries as you mentioned).

Login to wp through rdp or real IP?
Real IP is ok, just because you're the only one who has access to your own server analytics.
 

Htoga

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I noticed on some competitors that they use web.app netlify, and other such static app deployment domains with backlinks to the moneysite directly.
I'm talking about hundreds of such backlinks on hundreds of such domains.

The netlify domains are kept for about 1 month or so and then dropped. What is the point of all this ?
 
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