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Am I forced to start a company if I quit my job and live off IM money?

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by Daymgovernment, Mar 19, 2017.

  1. Daymgovernment

    Daymgovernment Newbie

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    I live in Finland, I very recently quit my "real job" because it was absolutely stressing me out and killing me slowly. I believe strongly in living off internet. I've been doing IM for years and I can finally live off it, so of course I quit the hamster wheel and start doing IM full time.

    My concern is that now that I quit my job, the government sees me as unemployed. I earn most of my money from affiliate networks who pays to my PayPal. I can easily live off $1.5k a month, but I can't start sending $1.5k per month from my PayPal to my bank account. The government will come and fuck me if I do that.

    I've been looking into starting a company, but there is so much bullshit to deal with. All paperwork, all fees. I don't earn all my money from affiliate networks. I also sell some stuff on an online store. On another website I buy virtual products low and sell them high. I have proxies, servers, one employee that I'm privately sending money to every month. I don't have time to start saving all these transactions so I can deduct them from my taxes. I can't afford hiring someone to do it for me.

    How do I get through this? Live as an unemployed person and never send money to my personal bank account? I have enough money on my bank account right now to live like this for a year, but then what?

    I also want to use my IM money for stock investing. But I can't invest in stocks if I can't get the money from my PayPal to my bank account. :(
     
  2. masterkid

    masterkid Junior Member

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    Maybe Payoneer? Transfer money to Payoneer, go to ATM and you have money in your pocket :)
     
  3. Daymgovernment

    Daymgovernment Newbie

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    I don't want to live with a big pile of cash, way too insecure way of storing money. Also how am I suppose to invest in stocks with cash?
     
  4. ContentInvasion

    ContentInvasion Registered Member

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    No other way buddy. Also, Payoneer will not work considering the fact that Paypal and Payoneer can't be connected and leaning only on Payoneer for receiving payments is nuts.

    I would definitely visit some groups and communities with people who live in your country and who are in your position. Share experiences and learn how you can avoid paying taxes. Or how you can cash out without government noticing it.

    While writing this, I got an interesting idea which I am not sure if it will work in your country. I know a friend who never cashes out money directly through his bank account. He sends money from his Paypal account to a Paypal account of a guy who converts into bitcoin and gives him cash directly. Surely, he loses a certain amount on fees and conversion but government has no idea whether this guy earns any money at all.
     
  5. Daymgovernment

    Daymgovernment Newbie

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    Sure it's not that hard to get my IM money into cash. The problem is that I don't want cash. I hate cash. It's unsafe to store cash at my home. What if I have $50k cash in my house and it burns down? Boom, $50k gone. The second issue is that I can not invest in stocks with cash. I only feel safe if the money is on my bank account.

    I don't even trust storing my money on PayPal or Payoneer.
     
  6. Alaindeloin

    Alaindeloin Regular Member

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    You went at school when you were young right ? Who paid ? your government.
    You went at the hospital right ? Who paid ? your government.
    You use the street right ? Who paid ? your government.

    If you earn money, pay your taxes.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
  7. joseph15

    joseph15 Regular Member

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    Why can't you send that 1.5K to your bank account monthly? You don't want to pay taxes on it?
     
  8. Daymgovernment

    Daymgovernment Newbie

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    I can pay taxes but starting a business is not just so easy as start paying taxes on what you earn. It means I need to spend TONS of time on paperwork and all other shit tasks related to filling these tax papers. I have to save ALL my transactions when I buy stuff, which can be 50 transactions per month. It's a part time job doing that shit, I don't have time for it at all.
     
  9. MatteoMatt

    MatteoMatt Regular Member

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    i do agree with this, and also there is the peace of mind knowing you aren't going to get a call from the tax office. The main thing is to protect yourself and make sure you aren't getting screwed on taxes either.

    For example, most the taxes I will potentially pay will go straight into Social Security and Medicare - both broken systems that will surely be defunct by the time I qualify for them. I would prefer to have some tax breaks and pay less into this, but at the same time its our duty i guess.
     
  10. 710fla

    710fla Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Just file as self employed and pay taxes.
     
  11. Rosca

    Rosca Junior Member

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    Try living a week or two without having a job. Take a break from the common BS of working.

    If you feel ready to go back into a IRL job field then try it.
     
  12. wepeze

    wepeze Newbie

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    bitcoin man
     
  13. AnotherBarry

    AnotherBarry Newbie

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    Not sure if the following will be helpful but here in the UK it's pretty easy to register as a sole trader/self-employed.

    Once you're registered all you have to do is submit a "Self-Assessment tax return" with your income and expenses at the end of each financial year. If you have expenses like travel, they can be deducted from any tax you may owe. If you work from home then things like your electricity and internet bill can be subsidised the same way based on how many hours you spend working etc. Unfortunately being self-employed here means you may pay a higher rate of tax than a full-time employee with the same earnings but I guess that's the price you pay for freedom. :p

    Alternatively you could register a limited company and then become an employee of the company - people generally do that to offset risk to personal assets. For example: if the company you start gets into debt, the company will go bankrupt and assets owned by the company will be liquidated. Whereas if you are self-employed and you get into debt, you go bankrupt and your assets get liquidated (house, cars, etc.). That being said if your income is through IM that's not really an issue.

    Keeping records is always good practice, but the basics are just incomings and outgoings. Not sure why you would need to complicate things with information about how much revenue came from your online store vs your affiliate payments. You just need to say how much you earn in one month, and how much you spent. Also if you hire someone to do a few hours/days work in a month it doesn't make them a permanent employee. They are only being contracted by you a client, not an employer. Just list what you pay them as an expense unless they really are a proper employee, if anyone needs to see a full breakdown of your finances you can download your transactions from PayPal.

    You'll have to check what laws apply to you in your country/state, and what tax rebates are available to you so you can keep as much of your income as possible. I would imagine the self-employed route will be the easiest and most convenient, though.
     
  14. nickcookies

    nickcookies Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    1) Open a bank account in Sweden (nearest country of Finland?)
    2) Send money to Sweden bank account
    3) Withdraw cash from Sweden or pay your bill with your Sweden credit/debit card in Finland

    P/S: I dont know if this works in your country. In my country we no need to pay tax for foreign income.
     
  15. MySideHustle

    MySideHustle Junior Member

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    Just do it by the book and pay your damn taxes. What's your income source? Affiliate?
     
  16. KillerKoala

    KillerKoala Newbie

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    I agree. I don't think it's worth to risk if you get reasonable amounts of money from your businesses. If that's below $100-200/month then perhaps you could skip few months before starting self-employment officialy.
    On the other side - if you earn over $20000/mo, then it maybe worth to think about hiring tax advisor, and maybe create some offshore limited company structures to decrease general taxation.
     
  17. Lomomu

    Lomomu Junior Member

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    Sorry if I missed something, I can't be bothered reading the whole post/thread - but if your making 1.5k a month, surely your tax for the year would be about nothing?

    I remember reading somewhere that PayPal is only required to submit your earnings to the ATO if your account turns over 20k in a year (not sure how reliable that is but what I've read).
     
  18. KillerKoala

    KillerKoala Newbie

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    That depends where he lives.
     
  19. Toro

    Toro Newbie

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    Taxes is just a part of reality. Trying to avoid them and keeping your income secret is a huge risk and takes a lot of effort compared to the potential gain. In the Nordic countries you may get more jail time for tax avoidance than you get for phsyical assault.

    For simple affiliate paychecks, the most practical way is to just report the money as income and keep enough to be able to pay the taxes. If you are selling products or services then you'll most likely need to register a company.

    When you start building serious wealth, then you can create holding companies that makes it easier to withdraw money and invest them into other companies, or even establish companies in other countries, or even changing your citizenship to save on taxes.

    Source: http://www.eatlp.org/uploads/public/2015/AnnexesGP2015.pdf