Alternatives to 3-4 Year College Degree?

JamieSEO

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If you were in the UK, you can now get loans/grants for Bsc, MSc and even PhDs. Provided you're not earning over £25k a year ( I think ) you don't need to pay these back.


Good luck with that! When I finished a few years ago its 9k a year fees ( min ), 5k loan a year which you pay back and then a grant 3k~. So over a 3 year course about 45k I owe back. You pay back when you start earning over 21k but this spirals up the more you earn, I seem to pay between 200-300 each month and will continue until its paid off.

Most 'grad' jobs are completely unrelated to anything you studied and they is no background checks on you. Get on photoshop get a degree in a subject unrelated to what you are applying for and I guarantee it works ;) ha
 

SocialManager

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While what you say is, in effect, doable, it is strongly not suggested. And while my knowledge of foreign financial systems is relatively nonexistent, my knowledge of the US financial system is from a financial degree and well over a decade in the industry in the sectors of investing, gambling, tax, personal finance and lending. I understand the concept of undue hardship, and have studied it well.

You are right, in bankruptcy student loans can be discharged. However, it isn't as easy as snapping your fingers and it's done. If you can prove without any question that the loan causes undue hardship, then there is a chance the loan can be discharged. It's more difficult than other loan types, though. Student loans are not as likely to pass the Brunner test. Why? There are three prongs that all need to be met for a loan to be discharged in bankruptcy:
  1. Inability to maintain minimum standards of living for yourself and dependents on the basis of current income and expenses. This is the easy one. Especially if your repayment plan is very high compared to your monthly expenses.
  2. A financial situation that is unlikely to change throughout the term of the loan. This is where things get difficult. My wife has $180,000 in student loan debt from medical school. The payment is $350 a month, though, as it's based on her taxable income. While we are making triple payments currently without any issues, that thing is accumulating interest like crazy. We keep paying, though, because in a few years she will be out of residency. At which point her financial situation is going to change. This will likely be an argument with any four-year education here in the United States. If you go to school to be an engineer, and then you enter a two-year apprenticeship program or an entry level job, it will be implied that, before the loan period is over, you will likely be making multitudes that in income.
  3. Making good-faith efforts to repay. This is where your logic of "can't pay, then just don't pay and declare bankruptcy!" fails. Good faith effort, according to the friend I just texted about this who is in the field of bankruptcy law, is three years at a minimum. If you graduate and immediately declare bankruptcy as soon as payments are due, you aren't going to be getting your loans discharged.
If you have federal student loans, as most of them are, you aren't going to be getting them discharged, either. You will likely be placed into an IDR plan if you haven't already been in one from the get-go (income driven repayment). Income and expenses will be scrutinized, and things will be gone over with a fine-tooth comb.

The average student loan debt upon graduation is around $35,000. Tack on some interest, and you'll likely pay $50,000 by the time it's all said and done. I don't think you grasp what bankruptcy does to a person. It's not just a clean slate. It's a complicated legal process that will follow you everywhere.

It will destroy your credit for ten years. Forget getting any other loans. Forget owning a home. Forget a business loan or a car loan. Unless you are willing to have a super-high interest rate, at which point you may find yourself in the same situation all over again.

Chapter 7 bankruptcy costs upwards of $2,000 or more. You can't get a loan to cover those fees.

You experience a loss of property. Do you own a house? How about a car? Those are the bank's now. In most states, property exemptions are handled by the state. State laws typically only protect the most essential. If you are deemed capable of renting, your house is the bank's.

And if you plan on getting a job anywhere in the finance field, you can kiss that opportunity goodbye. The firm I worked at for a bit was looking to hire a new financial analyst. He had a stellar interview and a perfect resume. But he had declared bankruptcy literally a few months before applying. No job.

Bankruptcy should never be an end goal, it should be a last resort. Having bankruptcy be a fallback is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard on this forum. I had a close friend of mine kill themselves four years back because they were forced to declare bankruptcy and couldn't deal with the pressure and the hardship that was associated with his life under a microscope and his financial capacity turned to dust. It's not a chill "meh" thing. This dude was solid as a rock. It breaks people.

I hate seeing shit advice being tossed around by someone who only half understands what they are talking about. That's the only reason I jumped in here. I'm cool with you bullshitting others because at least you add information and banter to the discussion. But this is just garbage advice and I don't want my fellow community members falling prey to the cluelessness of a smooth talker on a message board.

Good on you for having some knowledge of the American financial system, though. We are a rare breed these days.

Considering I have been through personal bankruptcy (in Canada, but obviously extremely similar), I think I have a decent grasp on the effects. This isn't just a concept I read about somewhere. Of course bankruptcy and loan repayment avoidance aren't just a game for fun, but we are weighing the potential risks vs the potential benefits.

We are literally talking within the context of people killing themselves over the stress their student loans put on them after they graduate from university and are unable to find good paying respectable jobs. We aren't talking about people who have the ability to purchase homes and simply choose not to pay their student loans to stick it to the man. Of course people who do go through bankruptcy can kill themselves, but more often the opposite is true, people find total relief after bankruptcy proceedings.

In the case of your friend, it seems disingenuous to imply they killed themselves because they were forced to go through bankruptcy. It sounds more like it was their financial situation and societal pressures that were the underlying cause. They were already in a horrible place, it seems like. Avoiding bankruptcy doesn't seem like it would have saved them. They would still be dealing with what pushed them to file for bankruptcy in the first place. People like you, who tell people how horrible bankruptcy is, are the reason people are so ashamed of it and avoid pursuing bankruptcy until their breaking point, if at all.

OF COURSE personal bankruptcy should be a backup plan. That's why it exists. It's not a GOAL, and I never suggested it was.

Some outside sources that agree with me:

http://fredappleton.com.au/ - "Bankruptcy is not the so called ‘last resort’ that everybody seems to say it is."

https://www.mensjournal.com/health-...bankruptcy-could-save-you-life-crushing-debt/ - “Nobody wants to end up here,” says Weiner. But it beats the constant, crushing stress of unpayable debt. Not only that, but, well, bankruptcy is also fundamentally American. That’s why it’s in the Constitution. The Founding Fathers knew that if this land was going to be a place where citizens could dream big and take risks, they also had to have what Weiner calls “the freedom to fail.”

Of course, there are also people who would agree bankruptcy is a last resort, but from my experience, most of those people have not been through bankruptcy or experienced true financial hardship. There is a different perspective you have in life when you have sat down with a notepad laying out your debts and income and have "sucking dick for $20" as a viable option to pay your debts. You can be sure that my future ability to purchase a home or car was extremely low on my list of concerns. Prostitution isn't even what I consider a last resort. Crime and suicide are other alternatives that many people turn to. So, yeah, it's pretty damn offensive when people call bankruptcy the last resort, and it reeks of living a privileged life to me that someone would say that.
 

steroidjoe

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Military has school funding benefits, as well as joining a foreign country's military. That's what I seen.
 

Alex0808

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Pr
hey, i researched a lot about available degrees in business management & marketing but everything is very expensive. Rs.6,00,000 per year in a decent college. Other cheap colleges have no value in market

Does anyone of you have any other way to get career in media buying or digital marketing? One way is getting certified from Google, Facebook & HubSpot and building a portfolio of campaigns

What other ways can you suggest?

P.S. - Job market is down in India, people from prestigious universities like IIT are commiting suicide because they couldn't get a decent job

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/jibber-jabber/another-suicide-at-iit-shrinking-job-market-is-a-potent-stress-factor-for-fresh-graduates/
Prepare for
State level exam for govt.job
Ssc cgl
And many....
Govt. Job means less work, good pay, less tension, more time for you and your family
 

javabro

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Hourly reminder: OP is not from US (UK or Canada)
 

Innovatorz

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Military has school funding benefits, as well as joining a foreign country's military. That's what I seen.
Nope, India doesn't unless he passes out from high school and joins a boot camp. Only a few seats there.
 

Innovatorz

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Pr

Prepare for
State level exam for govt.job
Ssc cgl
And many....
Govt. Job means less work, good pay, less tension, more time for you and your family
With the extra 10% EWS quota, good luck on getting a job. CGL is hosted once every two years (and you need to be a graduate). CHSL is hosted once every year (theoretically), and cracking it is a nightmare. State-level jobs are a joke, with the present unemployment rate.

However, it depends on the tenacity and knowledge level too.
 

Alex0808

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With the extra 10% EWS quota, good luck on getting a job. CGL is hosted once every two years (and you need to be a graduate). CHSL is hosted once every year (theoretically), and cracking it is a nightmare. State-level jobs are a joke, with the present unemployment rate.

However, it depends on the tenacity and knowledge level too.
Prepare sidewise
Make ‘Jugaad’ and go to college just to sit in exams...
 

SocialManager

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Hourly reminder: OP is not from US (UK or Canada)

This is an international forum and other people from other countries may have similar questions and not have an account or not want to start their own thread for each specific country. Most countries have many similarities in their systems where, even if something is not exactly the same, it can be adapted to another countries system. It is the responsibility of the person receiving the advice to do further research or ask further questions if they are not sure of somethings applicability in their home country. Alternatively, people from that country can weigh in and note whether something is applicable or not in OP's country. There is no reason to limit advice to people who are specifically knowledgeable in Indias policies, culture, and customs.
 

Innovatorz

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Prepare sidewise
Make ‘Jugaad’ and go to college just to sit in exams...
Lol. Doesn't happen. If you don't have the minimum qualification you cannot sit for the exam. So no CGL.

As for juggad, government colleges have a 75% attendance norm, or they won't allow you to attend practical. That's the reason I used to doze off in class while in college. Working 40 hours, then sitting through 5-6 hours (to have minimum 50% attendance), and then tuitions. That was really exhausting!

In a way, it prepared me for life, but still, that kind of grit is not present in everyone.
 

Innovatorz

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This is an international forum and other people from other countries may have similar questions and not have an account or not want to start their own thread for each specific country. Most countries have many similarities in their systems where, even if something is not exactly the same, it can be adapted to another countries system. It is the responsibility of the person receiving the advice to do further research or ask further questions if they are not sure of somethings applicability in their home country. Alternatively, people from that country can weigh in and note whether something is applicable or not in OP's country. There is no reason to limit advice to people who are specifically knowledgeable in Indias policies, culture, and customs.
If you are trying to help OP, stick to actionable steps only for him. If you want to advise the whole crowd, spout out whatever comes to your mind.
 

Alex0808

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Yo
Lol. Doesn't happen. If you don't have the minimum qualification you cannot sit for the exam. So no CGL.

As for juggad, government colleges have a 75% attendance norm, or they won't allow you to attend practical. That's the reason I used to doze off in class while in college. Working 40 hours, then sitting through 5-6 hours (to have minimum 50% attendance), and then tuitions. That was really exhausting!

In a way, it prepared me for life, but still, that kind of grit is not present in everyone.
Are you from India?
It is not necessory to graduade from a govt. College
Jugads exist
 

Innovatorz

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Yo

Are you from India?
It is not necessory to graduade from a govt. College
Jugads exist
True. Private colleges cost a lot. Once again, it depends on your (and not your parents' or family's) financial status.

It's a preference honestly. But yes juggads exist in every place.
 

SocialManager

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If you are trying to help OP, stick to actionable steps only for him. If you want to advise the whole crowd, spout out whatever comes to your mind.

Why do you say such a thing? It's clear from OPs post they are not only concerned specifically with getting a job in this specific field. They wouldn't have mentioned people killing themselves if that was the case. They are going through a very important transitioning period in their life from childhood to adulthood, and they need more than just actionable steps to get a job in media buying or digital marketing. The more input we have, the more likely OP is to find information that helps them. That's even just ignoring the practical effect of replies bumping this thread to the top of the forum, and ranking it higher in search engines, allowing for more people to provide feedback.
 

Innovatorz

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Why do you say such a thing? It's clear from OPs post they are not only concerned specifically with getting a job in this specific field. They wouldn't have mentioned people killing themselves if that was the case. They are going through a very important transitioning period in their life from childhood to adulthood, and they need more than just actionable steps to get a job in media buying or digital marketing. The more input we have, the more likely OP is to find information that helps them. That's even just ignoring the practical effect of replies bumping this thread to the top of the forum, and ranking it higher in search engines, allowing for more people to provide feedback.
Yeah, I know that OP is going through a transition. That also means people shouldn't bomb him with irrelevant info. Since he's a novice, he won't be able to distinguish between superfluous and/or useful stuff. He doesn't know, so there's no point in confusing him with everything.

That's just my 2 cents.

And also, since I went through the same phase I know what's he going through. :) So, I assume, I am somewhat qualified to help him out. However, I'm not trying to discourage you from sharing pertinent information. Just don't share/write something that's actually confusing or useless.
 

SocialManager

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Yeah, I know that OP is going through a transition. That also means people shouldn't bomb him with irrelevant info. Since he's a novice, he won't be able to distinguish between superfluous and/or useful stuff. He doesn't know, so there's no point in confusing him with everything.

And also, since I went through the same phase I know what's he going through. :) So, I assume, I am somewhat qualified to help him out. However, I'm not trying to discourage you from sharing pertinent information. Just don't share/write something that's actually confusing or useless.

Almost all of us have gone through the same phase. We know what he is going through. Going through tons of information and picking out the best bits that are most applicable to his specific situation is a skill he should practice now. You have already provided lots of information about government jobs and testing, which are not actionable steps for OP to get a job in marketing and media buying. So, it seems like you just think that what you write is useful and what others write is useless.
 

Alex0808

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Look for a private college first
Then have someone with you have good o
Links with the top management of the college
Thats how it works

Please tell me more about it. I am clueless right now about these things
 

Innovatorz

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Almost all of us have gone through the same phase. We know what he is going through. Going through tons of information and picking out the best bits that are most applicable to his specific situation is a skill he should practice now. You have already provided lots of information about government jobs and testing, which are not actionable steps for OP to get a job in marketing and media buying. So, it seems like you just think that what you write is useful and what others write is useless.
Let's not get into personal insults. It's bad for health. If you notice my first post I asked OP what he was looking for.

And my consequent posts were responses to someone else. Once again, you have keen eyesight, but this time, you missed it totally, and just attacked me That's a bad trait to have in public forum, and especially in the lounge.
 

SocialManager

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Let's not get into personal insults. It's bad for health. If you notice my first post I asked OP what he was looking for.

And my consequent posts were responses to someone else. Once again, you have keen eyesight, but this time, you missed it totally, and just attacked me That's a bad trait to have in public forum, and especially in the lounge.

I didn't get into a personal insult, I am just stating what appears to be the facts given the situation. Where did I "just attack you?" You are doing exactly what you are accusing me of! You implied my posts were useless. If you look at MY first post, you will see that my first reply was specifically address OP's concern about taking out loans, and I specifically addressed his initial question about alternatives to a college and how to get into companies in the industry he wants. Then, ANOTHER user replied and I provided a response to them. But then YOU come and ACTUALLY attack me, implying that I "missed it totally" and that I have a "bad trait."

Seriously... I can't believe you are actually saying these things to me.

Everything you accuse me of is actually thing YOU did first.
 
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