1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

All People Who Use Dog Shock Collars Should Stick A Taser Gun Up Their @55

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by BreaknBrix, Nov 30, 2014.

  1. BreaknBrix

    BreaknBrix Power Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2014
    Messages:
    751
    Likes Received:
    4,189
    Location:
    NE US
    This makes me really angry.

    I was on ebay checking the feedback of a guy I bought an amp meter from... and noticed tons of people buying these cheap, $12 dog shock collars from him. Just reading the feedback like, "works great! dog not barking anymore!!!" made me go from calm to homicidal in less than 3 seconds.

    I know this is a very controversial topic... but I need to make this thread.

    I am not a member of PETA, I'm not vegan, but I >>do<< love animals.

    [​IMG]
    (my pup)

    I worked at PetSmart for 6 years during college. My main job was specialty (taking care of the fish, hamsters, rabbits, rats, etc) but I also had the key to the shock collar case. And anytime someone came in to buy one, I'd do everything possible to not open the case. I'd insist they spoke to me for a few minutes before I even opened the case. And I'd explain how inhumane these things were.

    My bosses knew I did this, they hated it. But I compensated by selling a lot of other high end products. So they never really got on my case for it.


    Fastforward a bit. I stopped working at PetSmart and slowly made my way into the contracting / home improvement industry.

    Anytime I saw a homeowner using a shock collar on their dog, as a joke, I'd dare them to put the collar around their own neck and bark. This was far better than punching them in the face. A lot of these people would start spewing bs like, "they're safe, they don't hurt, they're humane, they work well" yada yada.

    So that gave ME even more justification to persuade >>THEM into putting the collars on.

    The reality is... most would NOT do it. So I have shocked myself at least 30+ times just to demonstrate and communicate how painful these collars are. I've also managed to get a few homeowners to shock themselves, and after that, most of them would throw these collars away.

    Just watch what these collars can do to a 250lb man, nevermind a 20lb min pin or 60 lb boxer...



    The manufacturers love to use words like "safe, humane, adjustable low to high joule output, pre-warning beep, emits 'unpleasant' signal" etc etc. They NEVER use the words "shock" or "pain".

    But if you read the studies online, the increase of cortisol, panting, heart rate and stress related behavior, all of these studies conclude these collars are very PAINFUL, not "unpleasant". If you PUT THEM ON YOURSELF, you'll realize in seconds there is NOTHING "humane" about these collars. After level 2, I've seen dogs jump almost 4 feet in the air when shocked. The squealing, the shreaking, it can last 10-15 seconds in some dogs. I'm a grown man using these collars on myself at low settings and nearly shitting my pants. So imagine how much more painful it will be for you poor little doggy.

    Then there is the fact that 90% of people can't even use these things properly.

    Schalke et al. study (2007)


    "The results of this study suggest that poor timing in the application of high level electric pulses, such as those used in this study, means there is a high risk that dogs will show severe and persistent stress symptoms. We recommend that the use of these devices should be restricted with proof of theoretical and practical qualification required and then the use of these devices should only be allowed in strictly specified situations."



    Oh, and here's the classic Polsky study about shock collars making dogs more aggressive / likely to attack...

    Polsky study (2000)

    Polsky presented a set of five case reports based on data from legal documents relating to personal injury lawsuits involving severe attacks on humans by dogs who were being trained or maintained on an electronic pet containment system (using a shock collar).[SUP][9][/SUP] In every incident, the dog was within the "shock zone" and all fences were working; the dogs must then have received a shock. Four of the five dogs were not subject to threatening behavior by the victims prior to the attack. None of the dogs gave any kind of warning prior to biting, and all bit their victims repeatedly and seriously in the head, face, back and neck.

    What does PETA think?​

    "Dogs wearing shock collars can suffer from physical pain and injury (ranging from burns to cardiac fibrillation) and psychological stress, including severe anxiety and displaced aggression. Individual animals vary in their temperaments and pain thresholds; a shock that seems mild to one dog may be severe to another. The anxiety and confusion caused by repeated shocks can lead to changes in the heart and respiration rate or gastrointestinal disorders. Electronic collars can also malfunction, either administering nonstop shocks or delivering no shocks at all".

    What does Karen Overall, Associate Professor of Behavior Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine, diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Behavioral Medicine have to say? ​

    "Absolutely, without exception, I oppose, will not recommend, and generally spend large amounts of time telling people why I oppose the use of shock collars, prong collars, choke collars, and any other type of device that is rooted in an adversarial, confrontational interaction with the dog. Without exception, such devices will make my anxious patients worse and allow the anger level of my clients to reach levels that are not helpful and may be dangerous".

    What Cesar Millan "The Dog Whisperer" Say?​

    "Mr Millan said he does not endorse the use of electric collars but does believe they can be useful in 'very extreme cases' where the dog is in danger of being put down if behavour does not improve"

    What Do You Think?

    I don't understand how ELECTROCUTING a dog is any more "humane" or "safe" then smacking, punching, or kicking your dog. If a cop see's you hitting your dog, you can go to jail. But if you put 1 of these shock collars on, and walk around >>>shocking your dog anytime he/she barks.... somehow that's ok. Meanwhile, humans go around all day talking, shouting and barking on their phones like idiots... I'm pretty sure that's a "nuisance" too. But are you gonna wip out a cattle prod and zap them? No. There are a million other ways to deal with that type of nuisance, same as a barking dog.

    -BB
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 11
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2016
  2. LostConnection

    LostConnection Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2014
    Messages:
    1,172
    Likes Received:
    1,350
    Location:
    Grinding away in the night
    I think some people would deserve to walk around wearing those things.

    But yes, definitely agree with not making dogs wear those, and thankfully in Scandinavia they have banned these. Now waiting for the UK, as Wales has already taken the first step for them and banned them.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  3. f0rest00

    f0rest00 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2013
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    312
    Ya better start an authority site on animal treatment niche.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  4. Capo Dei Capi

    Capo Dei Capi Power Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2014
    Messages:
    716
    Likes Received:
    1,546
    Home Page:
    Or instead of a tazer
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2016
  5. facebookdude

    facebookdude Elite Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2010
    Messages:
    1,506
    Likes Received:
    2,490
    My friend actually just bought a shock collar for his (in my opinion) relatively well behaved dog. His reasoning was, when the dog is off the leash he needs a way to be able to control his dog.

    At the time I didn't really see anything wrong with that as I have had no experience with the collars so I didn't know how powerful they were.

    I'm gonna send this thread to him.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  6. Hawkster

    Hawkster Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    Messages:
    2,787
    Likes Received:
    2,907
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Listen to everyone - Follow no-one
    Location:
    UK
    Home Page:
    I totally feel your anger, this is the worst way to go if you want to train your dog. Its cruel and should be made illegal.

    Only a brain dead pet owner would even consider this method.
     
  7. natedogg

    natedogg Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    104
    Occupation:
    IM, Sales
    Location:
    Computer
    Some people are fuckin scum!! Can you report the listing because it might fall in the firearms, weapons and knives category. You can't sell stun guns!
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  8. JustUs

    JustUs Power Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2012
    Messages:
    609
    Likes Received:
    452
    I feel your pain and just don't care how you feel. I have a dog that was a biter. After three years of training, he still bit people. A shock collar, one bite, one shock, and he does not bite any more.

    Before you go off on a rant, I have been shocked with tazers more than once by police.

    You tell me what is more cruel: having the state euthanize an animal for biting, or shocking to train?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2014
  9. CyberAlien

    CyberAlien Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    483
    Likes Received:
    231
    Shocking to train would be more cruel actually - to humanity, not necessarily the dog. Based off what you said, you shock the dog for biting. How many times did you let your dog bite someone and shock them before they learned lol? If the dog was biting people, it should be put down.
     
  10. MisterF

    MisterF Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,036
    Likes Received:
    911
    Occupation:
    Beating the odds ;)
    You can train a dog without needing to resort to pain or punishment, it just takes a bit of time and effort.
    People expect to be able to teach something in a day, it's not the case.

    Electric collars and prong collars should be banned worldwide, firstly the owners should be made to wear and experience them for 24 hours beforehand too, just to expereince what the dog has been through.
     
  11. Brad100

    Brad100 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2014
    Messages:
    1,347
    Likes Received:
    958
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't know which A**hole invented these things, and how can an owner be to buy one of these? Makes me sick.

    Lets start a petition?
     
  12. JustUs

    JustUs Power Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2012
    Messages:
    609
    Likes Received:
    452
    Considering that the animal had three years of training, I will have to disagree that shocking to train is more cruel. The last time someone threatened to sue me because the animal bit their pant leg, I ended the problem.

    I am sorry. I feel that your response is a failure to understand the actual situation and replacing your judgement with others when you are not qualified to access the situation. I would further suggest that because you frequent a Black Hat Marketing forum, that you be put down. See how that unqualified judgement works?

    I have no problem with your feeling that the use of an effective tool as a last resort is cruel, but I stress that it is your unqualified assessment.
     
  13. JustUs

    JustUs Power Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2012
    Messages:
    609
    Likes Received:
    452
    I imagine you will have to take your complaint up with Marconi, who is long since dead. You see a Taser, or a shock collar is nothing more than a square or a sine wave run through a transformer to ramp up the voltage. Such has been in use since since the vacuum tube and radio transmission were discovered.
     
  14. JustUs

    JustUs Power Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2012
    Messages:
    609
    Likes Received:
    452
    As an aside, Whoever is installing malware from this thread to redirect to their pet sales site needs to tone that shit down!

    [​IMG]
     
  15. JoeMongan

    JoeMongan Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2013
    Messages:
    1,712
    Likes Received:
    3,554
    Location:
    International Waters
    You can train a dog not to bark and do some pretty amazing things without the use of a shock
    collar so I really don't understand it.
     
  16. JustUs

    JustUs Power Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2012
    Messages:
    609
    Likes Received:
    452
    This is the first animal I have ever had to use a shock collar on. It does depend on the animal and the person. My wife cannot control the animal at all, but I control the animal by voice alone.
     
  17. sbndnb

    sbndnb Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2013
    Messages:
    480
    Likes Received:
    337
    Location:
    yurop
    I tried it on myself once, damn do those things hurt!
     
  18. the_demon

    the_demon Jr. Executive VIP

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2008
    Messages:
    3,177
    Likes Received:
    1,563
    Occupation:
    Search Engine Marketing
    Location:
    The Internet
    My brother bought a shock collar for his dog to teach it how to stop barking. After a relatively short time of use the dog no longer barks and he no longer uses it.

    Shock collars are safe and effective. Sure they might hurt briefly, but your mom and dad probably spanked you as a kid when you were bad, I know mine did... Guess what, I learned to stop the bad behavior and the spanking stopped. The point of the story here is a little bit of pain here and there can be a safe and effective teaching mechanism.

    Also, I have a friend with a tazer... a rather powerful one at that. He and another friend have both tazed themselves for fun. Although it's a quick jolt of pain within two minutes or less they are fine and it's like it never happened.

    All in all, I don't think shock collars are inhumane, I think they are just fine. I love dogs and animals too and treat them with respect, but I still don't think there is anything wrong with a shock collar.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2014
  19. davids355

    davids355 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2011
    Messages:
    8,794
    Likes Received:
    6,335
    Home Page:
    That's nothing anyway.
    i just watched a program on TV (via Googlbox, UK)where a man pulled out a goat's testicles using his teeth ! :-(